Christian Perspective: Why I Support Israel

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > The story goes that Jesus offered his New Covenant only to the Jews > > and they rejected it. Then he offered it everyone, Jews and Gentiles > > and stating that there is no longer a separation between Jew and > > Gentile. His New Covenant replaced the Law – thus obsoleting Judaism > > as a religion and transferring all the promises to the Christians. > > Jews can still opt into this New Covenant and become Gods Chosen if > > they will drop their arrogance and recognize the truth. > Which Christian Church do you belong to? > I have asked several times but never received an answer. > Do you have something to hide? > Methodist, but many Methodist hold to Dispenstionalism Doctrine because > Jerry Falwell and company is so vocal.

Now I understand. I was born and raised into the then very strict Methodist Church, and stuck it out when the Methodists merged with the United Brethern to form the United Methodist Church. Then, the church began to go soft and became more concerned with social consciousness than saving souls. When it finally began to change its tune as to homosexuality no longer being a sin, I said the heck with that. I began a search for the True Church. I still occasionally go to the Methodist Church with my aging mother out of respect for her. At no time do I EVER hear that sin will lead us to hell. All I see is Hour of Power-type warm and cuddly fuzzy-wuzzyness…smile your way to heaven. Al

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tilly, Are some of thes Talmud quotes true but were written many > years ago? > The Talmud is the oral law not the written law and is open to interpretation > and argument ,which is why one Rabbi interprets it one way and another > another way..It also explains why Jews are always arguing amongst > themselves! > Everything in it applies to a specific situation so if you take it out of > context you get the wrong meaning. > .It takes Jews a lifetime to try to understand just some of it !! > Understand that the Talmud was written many centuries ago .Some of the > things in it seem ‘quaint’ for this reason. > I hope this answers your question. Believe me, I am muddled by it > sometimes, but I have the benefit of being able to ask somebody who knows. I > may choose to disagree with it even then . > Tilly

Kinda sounds like the Orthodox at times, Tilly!! :-D Al — Orthodox Church and Bible Study Links http://aggreen.net/orth_links/orthlink.html

Response:

> The story goes that Jesus offered his New Covenant only to the Jews > and they rejected it. Then he offered it everyone, Jews and Gentiles > and stating that there is no longer a separation between Jew and > Gentile. His New Covenant replaced the Law – thus obsoleting Judaism > as a religion and transferring all the promises to the Christians. > Jews can still opt into this New Covenant and become Gods Chosen if > they will drop their arrogance and recognize the truth. > Which Christian Church do you belong to? > I have asked several times but never received an answer. > Do you have something to hide?

Methodist, but many Methodist hold to Dispenstionalism Doctrine because Jerry Falwell and company is so vocal.

Response:

Which Christian Church do you belong to? I have asked several times but never received an answer. Do you have something to hide? Tilly Tilly

Response:

> Tilly, Are some of thes Talmud quotes true but were written many > years ago?

The Talmud is the oral law not the written law and is open to interpretation and argument ,which is why one Rabbi interprets it one way and another another way..It also explains why Jews are always arguing amongst themselves! Everything in it applies to a specific situation so if you take it out of context you get the wrong meaning. .It takes Jews a lifetime to try to understand just some of it !! Understand that the Talmud was written many centuries ago .Some of the things in it seem ‘quaint’ for this reason. I hope this answers your question. Believe me, I am muddled by it sometimes, but I have the benefit of being able to ask somebody who knows. I may choose to disagree with it even then . Tilly

Response:

That was my impression too, and things can be taken out of context to inflame like what has been done with the Koran and the Bible.

Response:

http://www.saintbarbara.org/faith/worship/architecture.html Church Architecture In the long history of the Orthodox Church a definite style of Church architecture has developed by the attempt to reveal the fundamental experience of Orthodox Christianity: that GOD IS WITH US. The fact that Christ the Emmanuel (which translated means ‘God with us’) has come, determines the form of the Orthodox church building. God is with man in Christ through the Holy Spirit. The dwelling place of God is with man. "We are the temple of the living God…" (2 Corinthians 6:16), and it is exactly this conviction and experience that Orthodox Church architecture wishes to convey. It is also of interest that Churches are oriented so that the altar faces the East and sunrise, symbolizing Christ, the Light. Orthodox Church architecture reveals that God is with all people, dwelling in them and living in them through Christ and the Spirit. It does so by using the dome or the vaulted ceiling to crown the Christian church building, the house of the Church which is the people of God. Unlike the pointed arches which point to God far up in the heavens, the dome or the spacious, all-embracing ceiling gives the impression that in the Kingdom of God, and in the Church, Christ "unites all things in himself, things in heaven and things on earth," (Ephesians 1:10) and that in Him we are all "filled with all the fullness of God." (Ephesians 3:19) The interior of the Orthodox Church building is particularly styled to give the experience of the unity of all things in God. It is not constructed to reproduce the upper room of the Last Supper, nor to be simply a meeting hall for people whose life exists solely within the bounds of this earth. The church building is patterned after the image of God’s Kingdom in the Book of Revelation. Before us is the altar table on which Christ is enthroned, both as the Word of God in the Gospels and as the Lamb of God in the eucharistic sacrifice. Around the table are the angels and saints, the servants of the Word and the Lamb who glorify him – and through him, God the Father – in perpetual adoration inspired by the Holy Spirit. The faithful Christians on earth who already belong to that holy assembly enter into the eternal worship of God’s Kingdom in the Church. Thus, in Orthodox Practice, the Narthex orVestibule symbolizes this world. The nave is the place of the Church understood as the assembly and people of God. The altar area, called the sanctuary or the holy place, stands for the Kingdom of God. In the Orthodox Church the icons bear witness to the reality of God’s presence with us in the mystery of faith. The icons are not just human pictures or visual aids to comtemplation and prayer. They are the witnesses of the presence of the Kingdom of God to us, and also of our own presence in the Kingdom of God in the Church. The iconostasis or icon screen in the Orthodox Church exists to show our unity with Christ, his mother and all the angels and saints. It exists to show our unity with God. The altar table is placed behind the so-called royal gates, between the icons of the Theotokos and Child and the glorified Christ, showing that everything which happens to us in the Church happens in history between Christ’s coming as the Savior born of Mary, and his coming at the end of the age as the King and the Judge. We have mentioned that the entire church building is centered around the altar table. The altar table does not merely symbolize the table of the last supper. It is the symbolic and mystical presence of the heavenly throne and table of the Kingdom of God. The Book of the Gospels is perpetually enthroned on the altar table. It is on the altar table that we offer the "bloodless sacrifice" of Christ to the Father. And from the altar table we receive the Bread of Life, the Body and Blood of the Lord’s Passover Supper. This table is the "table of God’s Kingdom." (Luke 28:30) In Orthodox Tradition the altar table is often carved in wood or stone. It is usually vested with material to show its divine and heavenly character. On the altar table one always finds the antimension. This is the cloth depicting Christ in the tomb which contains the signature of the local presiding bishop and is the permission for the local community to gather as the Church. The Altar table also contains relics of three saints which show that the Church is built on the blood of the martyrs and the lives of God’s holy people. This custom comes from the early Church practice of gathering and celebrating the Eucharist on the graves of those who have lived and died for the Christian faith. The relics of Saint Panteleimon, Saint Boniface and Saint Kyrikos were embedded in the altar table here at Saint Barbara on October 9, 1994 when the Church was consecrated. Also found on the altar table is a tabernacle, in the shape of a church building, which is a repository for the gifts of holy communion that are reserved for the sick and the dying. There is also a small hand cross used for blessing and for veneration by the faithful. The sign of the cross is used throughout the church building: on the holy vessels, stands, tables, and vestments. The cross is the central symbol for Christians, not only as the instrument of the world’s salvation by the crucified Christ, but also as the constant witness to the fact that men cannot be Christians unless they live with the cross as the very content of their lives in this world. "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me" (Mark 8:34). For these reasons Christians place upon themselves the sign of the cross. The Orthodox place their first two fingers and thumb together to form a sign of the Triune God and cross themselves from the head to the breast and from shoulder to shoulder, right to left. This unique and all-embracing symbol shows that the cross is the inspiration, power and indeed the very content of our lives as Christians; and that man’s mind, heart and strength must be given to the love of God and man.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Not a chance in hell, buddy. > The Orthodox church does not forget its roots in Judaism. It’s temples are > fashioned (somewhat) after the Jewis temples and much of its > accoutrements — votive candles, incense, lambada lamps, etc. — are > hold-overs from the Jewish temples. > Al > > The story goes that Jesus offered his New Covenant only to the Jews and > they > > rejected it. Then he offered it everyone, Jews and Gentiles and stating > > that there is no longer a separation between Jew and Gentile. His New > > Covenant replaced the Law – thus obsoleting Judaism as a religion and > > transferring all the promises to the Christians. Jews can still opt > into > > this New Covenant and become Gods Chosen if they will drop their > arrogance > > and recognize the truth. > > > > John.4 > > > > [22] Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for > > > > salvation is of the Jews. > > > Orthodox Study Bible commentary on this verse: > > > "Salvation is of the Jews: Jesus Christ affirms that valid revelation > > comes > > > from Judaism (see Ps. 76:1). ‘The commonwealth of Israel was the > school > of > > > the knowledge of God for all the nations’ (St. Athanasius). Note that > > Jesus’ > > > disputes with the Jews involve chiefly the Jewish leaders, not the > people > > > themselves, and certainly not the spiritual heritage of Judaism. The > > Messiah > > > was prophesied within Judaism; the Incarnation took place among the > Jewish > > > people. God’s universal gift of salvation arises within the context of > His > > > promises to the Jews and their religious tradition." > > > Whoever you are, RakkaRage, we Christians play with fire when we work > for > > > their destruction. Thank you for pointing out this verse. > > > (Could you sign your name next time?) > > > Al > > > — > > > Orthodox Church and Bible Study Links > > > http://aggreen.net/orth_links/orthlink.html

Response:

http://www.theologic.com/oflweb/inchurch/guidedtour.htm Welcome to the Orthodox Church: A Guided Tour by Deacon Daniel Swires As you approach an Orthodox Church, you will notice that it is quite different from Western church buildings. The exterior of an Orthodox Church building will usually have one or more domes, often topped by a cupola. Unlike the pointed steeples of Western churches, which point to God far away in the Heavens, the dome is an all-embracing ceiling, revealing that in the Kingdom of God, and in the Church, "Christ unites all things in himself, things in Heaven and things on earth" (Ephesians 1:10), and that in Him we are all "filled with all the fullness of God." (Ephesians 3:19). Over the entrance of the building, or at times next to it, there is usually a bell tower. Different patterns of ringing the bells are used to call the faithful to prayer and to the divine services. They also used at important points during services. The sound of bells reminds us of the higher, Heavenly world. Orthodox churches generally take one of several exterior shapes that have spiritual significance. The most common shape is a rectangular shape, in the form of a ship. Just as a ship conveys people through the stormy seas to a calm harbor, so the Church, guided by Christ, carries us to the Kingdom of God. Churches are also frequently built in the form of a Cross – to proclaim that we are saved through faith in the Crucified Christ. Almost always Orthodox churches are oriented East-West, with the main entrance of the building at the West end. This symbolizes the entrance of the faithful from the darkness of sin (the West) into the light of truth (the East). The interior of the Orthodox Church building is designed to convey the unity of the universe in God. It is not simply a meeting hall for people whose life exists solely within the bounds of this earth. The Church building is patterned after the image of God’s Kingdom, as revealed in Holy Scripture: In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one cried to another and said: ‘Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; The whole earth is full of His glory!’ And the posts of the door were shaken by the voice of him who cried out, and the house was filled with smoke. So I said: ‘Woe is me, for I am undone! Because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.’ Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a live coal which he had taken with the tongs from the altar. And he touched my mouth with it, and said: ‘Behold, this has touched your lips; your iniquity is taken away, and your sin purged.’ (Isaiah 6:1-7) This vision of the Holy Prophet Isaiah is a vision into the Heavenly throne room of God. In this vision is revealed the eternal worship and adoration of God which takes place "at all times and in every hour." The Orthodox Church also lives this divine revelation. St. John the Theologian also heard the same loud voice and witnessed the eternal worship that takes place in the presence of the Holy God: And from the throne proceeded lightnings, thunderings, and voices. Seven lamps of fire were burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. Before the throne there was a sea of glass, like crystal. And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back . each having six wings,… And they do not rest day or night, saying: ‘Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!’ (Revelations 4:5-8) The Divine worship, prayers, services and Mysteries which are celebrated in the Holy Orthodox Church lead us into this mystic, divine and continuous Heavenly adoration of the All-holy Trinity. In a most perfect way, the Church teaches us to fulfill St. Paul’s injunction to "pray without ceasing." St. John of Kronstadt reveals this understanding of the Church in his work, My Life in Christ: Truly the church is Heaven upon earth; for where the throne of God is, where the awful sacraments are celebrated, where the angels serve together with men, ceaselessly glorifying the Almighty, there is truly Heaven. And so let us enter into the house of God with the fear of God, with a pure heart, laying aside all vices and every worldly care, and let us stand in it with faith and reverence, with understanding attention, with love and peace in our hearts, so that we may come away renewed, as though made Heavenly; so that we may live in the holiness natural to Heaven, not bound by worldly desires and pleasures. (Grinsbrooke, W. J.; Spiritual Counsels of Father John of Kronstadt, p. 75). Since the Orthodox Church has always lived this mystical link between Heaven and earth, everything experienced in the Church is in response to this reality , pointing us to this reality. The Church building, the ordering of the Divine services, their actions, movements, images, smells, prayers and readings. It all acts to lead us into the throne room, granting access to the inaccessible. The icons at the entrance to the Church remind Orthodox Christians that Christ and the saints are invisibly present in this Holy Place, the Sacred space of the Church. The first thing they do upon entering this Holy Place is to make the sign of the Cross and three deep reverences. The interior of an Orthodox church is divided into three parts. The first is the Narthex (Lity in Greek; Pritvor in Slavonic). In ancient times it was a large, spacious place, where the Catechumens received instruction while preparing for Baptism, and also where Penitents who were excluded from Holy Communion stood. So, the Narthex of the Church represents this world in which mankind is called to repentance. The main body of the church is the Nave, separated from the Sanctuary (Holy Place) by an icon screen with doors, called the iconostasis (icon stand). The walls of the Nave are decorated with icons and murals, before many of which are hanging lit lamps (lampadas). The Nave is the place of the assembled Church, which includes both the living and the departed, the people of God. The Sanctuary, which lies beyond the iconostasis, is set aside for those who have a special function within the Divine services, and normally persons not consecrated to the service of the Church are not permitted to enter. Occupying the central place in the Sanctuary is the Holy Altar, which represents the Throne of God, with the Lord Himself invisibly present there. The Holy Altar is the point of meeting and union with God in His Kingdom. As we noted, Orthodox churches vary somewhat architecturally. But, all Orthodox Churches are built to represent the universe. The ceiling represents Heaven. The opening in the ceiling (dome), within which is an icon of Christ Pantocrator, i.e., the all-ruling Christ, represents Christ looking down from Heaven upon the assembled congregation, hearing their prayers, reminding them of His presence in the whole universe. The floor of the Church, then, represents this world. The Holy Altar is uplifted from the floor by a series of steps and suspended, as it were, between Heaven and earth, because it is the meeting point, the place where our gift to God is brought in the Great Entrance, and from which comes the Grace of God in the readings and teachings of the Holy Gospel, and the Grace of the Holy Mysteries. The iconostasis or icon screen separates the Nave from the Sanctuary, just as the veil in the Old Testament Tabernacle and Temple. But, this veil is no longer permanently closed: it has been opened by Christ Himself. On the iconostasis are placed icons of Christ, Mary and various other Saints. All these are a visible representation of an invisible reality. They reveal the presence of Christ and of His Saints gathered around His Throne. The second row of icons on some icon screens depicts the major events in the life of our Lord from the Annunciation to His Ascension. This serves as the Gospel in pictures, revealed to the assembled faithful. Icons are much more than just beautiful art or visual aids. Icons are windows through which the faithful see into the world beyond time and space. Just as Christ manifested and communicated God to us in His material body, so the Church today continues to use material things (wood, paint, etc.) to make God known to mankind. An Orthodox icon depicts the transfiguration of the human body. It represents the saint’s body transformed, transfigured by Grace in the Kingdom of God. The Saints represented in icons look straight into the eyes of their beholders, as if to say, "Here I am. I am very much alive in the presence of God." During the services of the Orthodox Church, the deacon or priest censes first the icons and then the entire congregation. In so doing, the Church honors not only the angels, saints and martyrs, but also the living icon (image) of God which every faithful Christian bears. The Tabernacle is kept on the center of the Holy Altar. In the Old Testament, the tablets on which God had written the Ten Commandments were kept in the Tabernacle. In the New Testament it is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself Who dwells here. His precious Body and Blood are ever kept in the Tabernacle. The Church, then, is truly the house of God. God is ever present here in a very real way. This is why the Orthodox Christian makes the sign of the cross whenever he passes before the Holy Altar. The eternal light is the votive light that is suspended above the Tabernacle or burns before it on the altar table. It burns constantly to denote that the Lord Jesus Christ Who is the "Light of the World" is truly present. The two circular fans, which are found in most Orthodox Churches on either … read more »

Response:

First, I’m not anyone’s "buddy." Second, what exactly are you referring to? Al

Response:

Not a chance in hell, buddy.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The Orthodox church does not forget its roots in Judaism. It’s temples are > fashioned (somewhat) after the Jewis temples and much of its > accoutrements — votive candles, incense, lambada lamps, etc. — are > hold-overs from the Jewish temples. > Al > The story goes that Jesus offered his New Covenant only to the Jews and > they > rejected it. Then he offered it everyone, Jews and Gentiles and stating > that there is no longer a separation between Jew and Gentile. His New > Covenant replaced the Law – thus obsoleting Judaism as a religion and > transferring all the promises to the Christians. Jews can still opt into > this New Covenant and become Gods Chosen if they will drop their arrogance > and recognize the truth. > > > John.4 > > > [22] Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for > > > salvation is of the Jews. > > Orthodox Study Bible commentary on this verse: > > "Salvation is of the Jews: Jesus Christ affirms that valid revelation > comes > > from Judaism (see Ps. 76:1). ‘The commonwealth of Israel was the school > of > > the knowledge of God for all the nations’ (St. Athanasius). Note that > Jesus’ > > disputes with the Jews involve chiefly the Jewish leaders, not the > people > > themselves, and certainly not the spiritual heritage of Judaism. The > Messiah > > was prophesied within Judaism; the Incarnation took place among the > Jewish > > people. God’s universal gift of salvation arises within the context of > His > > promises to the Jews and their religious tradition." > > Whoever you are, RakkaRage, we Christians play with fire when we work > for > > their destruction. Thank you for pointing out this verse. > > (Could you sign your name next time?) > > Al > > — > > Orthodox Church and Bible Study Links > > http://aggreen.net/orth_links/orthlink.html

Response:

The Orthodox church does not forget its roots in Judaism. It’s temples are fashioned (somewhat) after the Jewis temples and much of its accoutrements — votive candles, incense, lambada lamps, etc. — are hold-overs from the Jewish temples. Al

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The story goes that Jesus offered his New Covenant only to the Jews and they > rejected it. Then he offered it everyone, Jews and Gentiles and stating > that there is no longer a separation between Jew and Gentile. His New > Covenant replaced the Law – thus obsoleting Judaism as a religion and > transferring all the promises to the Christians. Jews can still opt into > this New Covenant and become Gods Chosen if they will drop their arrogance > and recognize the truth. > > John.4 > > [22] Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for > > salvation is of the Jews. > Orthodox Study Bible commentary on this verse: > "Salvation is of the Jews: Jesus Christ affirms that valid revelation > comes > from Judaism (see Ps. 76:1). ‘The commonwealth of Israel was the school of > the knowledge of God for all the nations’ (St. Athanasius). Note that > Jesus’ > disputes with the Jews involve chiefly the Jewish leaders, not the people > themselves, and certainly not the spiritual heritage of Judaism. The > Messiah > was prophesied within Judaism; the Incarnation took place among the Jewish > people. God’s universal gift of salvation arises within the context of His > promises to the Jews and their religious tradition." > Whoever you are, RakkaRage, we Christians play with fire when we work for > their destruction. Thank you for pointing out this verse. > (Could you sign your name next time?) > Al > — > Orthodox Church and Bible Study Links > http://aggreen.net/orth_links/orthlink.html

Response:

The story goes that Jesus offered his New Covenant only to the Jews and they rejected it. Then he offered it everyone, Jews and Gentiles and stating that there is no longer a separation between Jew and Gentile. His New Covenant replaced the Law – thus obsoleting Judaism as a religion and transferring all the promises to the Christians. Jews can still opt into this New Covenant and become Gods Chosen if they will drop their arrogance and recognize the truth.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> John.4 > [22] Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for > salvation is of the Jews. > Orthodox Study Bible commentary on this verse: > "Salvation is of the Jews: Jesus Christ affirms that valid revelation comes > from Judaism (see Ps. 76:1). ‘The commonwealth of Israel was the school of > the knowledge of God for all the nations’ (St. Athanasius). Note that Jesus’ > disputes with the Jews involve chiefly the Jewish leaders, not the people > themselves, and certainly not the spiritual heritage of Judaism. The Messiah > was prophesied within Judaism; the Incarnation took place among the Jewish > people. God’s universal gift of salvation arises within the context of His > promises to the Jews and their religious tradition." > Whoever you are, RakkaRage, we Christians play with fire when we work for > their destruction. Thank you for pointing out this verse. > (Could you sign your name next time?) > Al > — > Orthodox Church and Bible Study Links > http://aggreen.net/orth_links/orthlink.html

Response:

> John.4 > [22] Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for > salvation is of the Jews.

Orthodox Study Bible commentary on this verse: "Salvation is of the Jews: Jesus Christ affirms that valid revelation comes from Judaism (see Ps. 76:1). ‘The commonwealth of Israel was the school of the knowledge of God for all the nations’ (St. Athanasius). Note that Jesus’ disputes with the Jews involve chiefly the Jewish leaders, not the people themselves, and certainly not the spiritual heritage of Judaism. The Messiah was prophesied within Judaism; the Incarnation took place among the Jewish people. God’s universal gift of salvation arises within the context of His promises to the Jews and their religious tradition." Whoever you are, RakkaRage, we Christians play with fire when we work for their destruction. Thank you for pointing out this verse. (Could you sign your name next time?) Al — Orthodox Church and Bible Study Links http://aggreen.net/orth_links/orthlink.html

Response:

John.4 [22] Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Galatians 3:28 > There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are > all one in Christ Jesus. > I believe a Christian should first seek Justice for the oppressed – not put > Jewish Culture first. > Zechariah 12:1 > This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD , who stretches > out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the > spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a > cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be > besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of > the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable > rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. > *** > This, is a relatively simple verse. There are many like this. Indeed, > the context of the Book of Zechariah sheds light on many things about > today’s Israel. > But, this verse perhaps best captures… in a few short sentences… the > place where Israel is today. > And, it was written thousands of years ago. > "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding > peoples reeling." > God made Jerusalem, God made modern Israel, and God is making her > immovable. God made Jerusalem a cup that sends all of the surrounding > peoples reeling. > Ultimately, the Islamists have expressed their desire to expel Israel. > One of their first steps is to gain ground through treaties, because > they have gone the way of war and found Israel to be a very sore thing > to attack. Rather than gain land, they lost land. > As they richly deserved it. > In fact, in the history of the world, there has been no greater outrage. > And, there is no excuse for this outrage. Not only did the Islamists > attack Israel and conquer it, but they desecrated the land completely. > They took over the sacred places, the Temples, the cemeteries, and the > wealth and history of Israel. > But, this is what really infuriates me. The current Islamist war on > Israel and the world’s reaction to it. Instead of standing down, they > stand up, they stand up against Israel and aid the Islamist in his great > outrage. > After all, did these verses not get all? Have they not been spread all > over the world? Is there someway people could have missed these things? > On the contrary, these verses are well known, and for those who do not > know the specifics have heard enough to know there is a very strong > claim that they are there — if they do not look, it is their own fault, > therefore. > This current conflict is not the fault of Israel. There was a peace > agreement signed. Israel, pushed by the US, signed this agreement. The > opposition signed the agreement. Israel received absolutely nothing in > return for this, but gave out a huge parcel of their own land to the > terrorist opposition. > The terrorist opposition then preceded on putting up a state which > issued for a media blitz of hate speech against Israel… in their news, > in their commentary, even in their shows for little children. In their > schoolbooks, they presented an outrageous hate speech against Israel, > and in their schools they put forth plays whereby little children would > play the role of terrorists. > Finally, after years of these things, and increasing acts of terrorism > by these Islamists… the Islamists really got mad. They rose up and > started an "uprising". Which is not an "uprising" at all, but a war. > They collectively started war on Israel, and sent in waves of suicide > bombers. > Israel fought back, and Israel continues to fight back, and the harder > Israel fights back — the less the terrorism on Israel continues. > The Muslim goes far above and beyond this aggression, though. He has > made his religion into a hate religion. He has shifted the course of his > religion of war into a religion of opposition against Israel. > This religion has over one billion adherents. There are educated people > involved in this… and the educated people present a collective face to > the Westerners and to the East. They say, "We didn’t do anything". > But, in the Islamic world, the private world, they present another face. > One which demonizes the Jew, Israel, and anyone whom supports Israel. > The very nature of the "suicide bomber" is a blasphemy… an evil… > which is difficult for me to describe because of its’ horrendous vileness. > First, they call them "martyrs". This is a Greek word the Christians > have been using for persecuted Christians for centuries. When they do > this, they step up and spit on the blood of every Christian martyr. > I say the word is Greek, because it is. In context, it comes directly > from the New Testament, written in Greek. The Muslims knew the context > well when they took it. > Though God did not send them… though, they heard no audible voice from > God, nor a vision, not even a dream… these suicide murderers take it > apon themselves to blow up or otherwise kill masses of innocent people, > and then say, "This is not my work. It is God’s work." > Even worse, all across the Muslim world people celebrate this, not as > some minor thing — but as the holiest of things. The murderers are > celebrated as victorious saints… and we are reminded once again, the > only sure way in Islam to get to Paradise is to "die in jihad". > When I say that this is evil… I mean it is evil in the truest sense of > the word. You could put a rotting, maggot filled corpse before me, and I > would have the same reaction and the same abhorrence for it, outwardly. > Inwardly, it is as if taking a burning iron and scalding my soul’s face > and forehead with it. > It is pure fury, it is pure rage. > Without historical context, these things are bad enough. Without the > blatantly obvious Scripture – which I stand before God and state, "these > people know it" – it would be bad enough. But, within the historical > context, the injustice of these circumstances overrule any trace of > civility or barbarity — ever known to man. > It is an outrage which consumes the soul. It wakes the dead and causes > the Heavens to shudder. > In the historical context, the Jews suffered through millenias of > difficulty, even before being forcibly expelled by Rome. Who committed > these atrocities against the Israelites? The very nations now standing > against her. > Then, the Israelites were completely expelled by Rome. And, for two > millenia she was dispersed through the "four corners of the earth". For > two millenia she wandered, a nation unlike any other, a nation without a > country… the constant foreigner, the ever outsider, and likewise, the > persecuted. > Men use this to Israel’s disadvantage. They say, "God did these things > to you, so we will help him." But, if God has business with Israel, what > business it is of men? These men think so highly of themselves, that > they would presume to act on the behalf of the Lord Almighty — who did > not send them? That they did, and this, they continue to do. > Israel was formed again out of pure necessity, in the eyes of the Jew. > The only truer statement which might be said is that it was by the Hand > of God that Israel was formed again. Don’t take my word for it, God said > this very clearly in the Bible. > Israel was formed out of the horror of the Holocaust and the Stalinist > purges. Israel was not only formed out of these horrors, but out of the > horrors which the world inflicted apon them through these past two > millenia. Horror not difficult to fathom, for Israel… unlike every > other nation in the world, not only did not have a defense system, an > army to protect itself with… but, Israel didn’t even have its’ land. > I do admit, however, that the horror inflicted apon them by the Nazis > was unlike anything else man has ever done before. They humiliated them > before the nations. They stood up and slandered them, more viciously and > more often then any nation has ever done to another nation before. They > stole all of their possessions, and they did not hesitate to send not > only the adult males to their deaths… but also the old, the young, and > the women. > They did not give them the option of combat. They seized apon the > weakest of all nations, and they hoarded them up before the world. Even > across Europe, the Germans traveled, seeking to destroy the Jew. > They forced them to wear humiliating clothes, they tagged them with > humiliating symbols, and they kept them in concentration camps, until > they would systematically murder them en masse. > To this I state, the world is already dead. I am dead, and with me, the > world. > We have nothing left. The last bell has already sounded. Man has signed > his own death warrant, and sees it not. It is over. We went over the > limit of criminal action which was reserved for us. We have so severely > polluted this planet with criminal actions of such severe heinousness… > that it is impossible for the world to continue. > Yet, the earth still spins. People still "buy and sell" and are still > "given in marriage". The Holocaust revisionists claim "it never > happened" and the atheists claim "the worst thing about the war was > Hiroshima". > Now,

Response:

> Why should I as a Christian support Israel? Are Jews to be favored over > other people, or does God love ALL his people equally? No, Jews are > neither superior nor inferior to any other people.

Then you would/should support Israel, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, England, USA,…etc. Group hug, anyone??? Al Ditto for Muslims and – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Christians. Gods commandments should be followed with Justice and > fairness – in other words, "love your neighbor as you do yourself". If we > were observing Gods commands we would be following that commandment. I > think none of us follow that commandment — first Christians for letting > Israel to be birthed as a nation, second Jews for the injustices done > against the people who already lived their before Israel was created, and > third the Arabs for using violence to resist the takeover of their homeland.

Response:

Why should I as a Christian support Israel? Are Jews to be favored over other people, or does God love ALL his people equally? No, Jews are neither superior nor inferior to any other people. Ditto for Muslims and Christians. Gods commandments should be followed with Justice and fairness – in other words, "love your neighbor as you do yourself". If we were observing Gods commands we would be following that commandment. I think none of us follow that commandment — first Christians for letting Israel to be birthed as a nation, second Jews for the injustices done against the people who already lived their before Israel was created, and third the Arabs for using violence to resist the takeover of their homeland.

Response:

Tilly, Are some of thes Talmud quotes true but were written many years ago?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Christian Perspective: Why YOU Support Israel: > anonymous: > Talmud > "The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. > They are beasts." > Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b > "The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs." > Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b [ that includes you anonymous] > Insults Against Blessed Mary > Sanhedrin 106a . Says Mary was a whore: "She who was the descendant > of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in > footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that > in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus > mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men. > Horrible Blasphemy Against Jesus Christ > Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement." > Sanhedrin 43a. Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, > Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged…Do you suppose that he was one for whom a > defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?" > Talmud Attacks Non jews beliefs > Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the > Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations. > Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the > New Testament. > What Christian church to you belong to adder21? > Tilly > —

Response:

> Galatians 3:28 > There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are > all one in Christ Jesus. > I believe a Christian should first seek Justice for the oppressed – not put > Jewish Culture first.

I stated as much in my writing. There is no greater oppressed place nor people on earth. Regardless, you personal opinion is meaningless. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Zechariah 12:1 >This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD , who stretches >out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the >spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a >cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be >besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of >the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable >rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. >*** >This, is a relatively simple verse. There are many like this. Indeed, >the context of the Book of Zechariah sheds light on many things about >today’s Israel. >But, this verse perhaps best captures… in a few short sentences… the >place where Israel is today. >And, it was written thousands of years ago. >"I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding >peoples reeling." >God made Jerusalem, God made modern Israel, and God is making her >immovable. God made Jerusalem a cup that sends all of the surrounding >peoples reeling. >Ultimately, the Islamists have expressed their desire to expel Israel. >One of their first steps is to gain ground through treaties, because >they have gone the way of war and found Israel to be a very sore thing >to attack. Rather than gain land, they lost land. >As they richly deserved it. >In fact, in the history of the world, there has been no greater outrage. > And, there is no excuse for this outrage. Not only did the Islamists >attack Israel and conquer it, but they desecrated the land completely. >They took over the sacred places, the Temples, the cemeteries, and the >wealth and history of Israel. >But, this is what really infuriates me. The current Islamist war on >Israel and the world’s reaction to it. Instead of standing down, they >stand up, they stand up against Israel and aid the Islamist in his great >outrage. >After all, did these verses not get all? Have they not been spread all >over the world? Is there someway people could have missed these things? >On the contrary, these verses are well known, and for those who do not >know the specifics have heard enough to know there is a very strong >claim that they are there — if they do not look, it is their own fault, >therefore. >This current conflict is not the fault of Israel. There was a peace >agreement signed. Israel, pushed by the US, signed this agreement. The >opposition signed the agreement. Israel received absolutely nothing in >return for this, but gave out a huge parcel of their own land to the >terrorist opposition. >The terrorist opposition then preceded on putting up a state which >issued for a media blitz of hate speech against Israel… in their news, >in their commentary, even in their shows for little children. In their >schoolbooks, they presented an outrageous hate speech against Israel, >and in their schools they put forth plays whereby little children would >play the role of terrorists. >Finally, after years of these things, and increasing acts of terrorism >by these Islamists… the Islamists really got mad. They rose up and >started an "uprising". Which is not an "uprising" at all, but a war. >They collectively started war on Israel, and sent in waves of suicide >bombers. >Israel fought back, and Israel continues to fight back, and the harder >Israel fights back — the less the terrorism on Israel continues. >The Muslim goes far above and beyond this aggression, though. He has >made his religion into a hate religion. He has shifted the course of his >religion of war into a religion of opposition against Israel. >This religion has over one billion adherents. There are educated people >involved in this… and the educated people present a collective face to >the Westerners and to the East. They say, "We didn’t do anything". >But, in the Islamic world, the private world, they present another face. >One which demonizes the Jew, Israel, and anyone whom supports Israel. >The very nature of the "suicide bomber" is a blasphemy… an evil… >which is difficult for me to describe because of its’ horrendous vileness. >First, they call them "martyrs". This is a Greek word the Christians >have been using for persecuted Christians for centuries. When they do >this, they step up and spit on the blood of every Christian martyr. >I say the word is Greek, because it is. In context, it comes directly >from the New Testament, written in Greek. The Muslims knew the context >well when they took it. >Though God did not send them… though, they heard no audible voice from >God, nor a vision, not even a dream… these suicide murderers take it >apon themselves to blow up or otherwise kill masses of innocent people, >and then say, "This is not my work. It is God’s work." >Even worse, all across the Muslim world people celebrate this, not as >some minor thing — but as the holiest of things. The murderers are >celebrated as victorious saints… and we are reminded once again, the >only sure way in Islam to get to Paradise is to "die in jihad". >When I say that this is evil… I mean it is evil in the truest sense of >the word. You could put a rotting, maggot filled corpse before me, and I >would have the same reaction and the same abhorrence for it, outwardly. >Inwardly, it is as if taking a burning iron and scalding my soul’s face >and forehead with it. >It is pure fury, it is pure rage. >Without historical context, these things are bad enough. Without the >blatantly obvious Scripture – which I stand before God and state, "these >people know it" – it would be bad enough. But, within the historical >context, the injustice of these circumstances overrule any trace of >civility or barbarity — ever known to man. >It is an outrage which consumes the soul. It wakes the dead and causes >the Heavens to shudder. >In the historical context, the Jews suffered through millenias of >difficulty, even before being forcibly expelled by Rome. Who committed >these atrocities against the Israelites? The very nations now standing >against her. >Then, the Israelites were completely expelled by Rome. And, for two >millenia she was dispersed through the "four corners of the earth". For >two millenia she wandered, a nation unlike any other, a nation without a >country… the constant foreigner, the ever outsider, and likewise, the >persecuted. >Men use this to Israel’s disadvantage. They say, "God did these things >to you, so we will help him." But, if God has business with Israel, what >business it is of men? These men think so highly of themselves, that >they would presume to act on the behalf of the Lord Almighty — who did >not send them? That they did, and this, they continue to do. >Israel was formed again out of pure necessity, in the eyes of the Jew. >The only truer statement which might be said is that it was by the Hand >of God that Israel was formed again. Don’t take my word for it, God said >this very clearly in the Bible. >Israel was formed out of the horror of the Holocaust and the Stalinist >purges. Israel was not only formed out of these horrors, but out of the >horrors which the world inflicted apon them through these past two >millenia. Horror not difficult to fathom, for Israel… unlike every >other nation in the world, not only did not have a defense system, an >army to protect itself with… but, Israel didn’t even have its’ land. >I do admit, however, that the horror inflicted apon them by the Nazis >was unlike anything else man has ever done before. They humiliated them >before the nations. They stood up and slandered them, more viciously and >more often then any nation has ever done to another nation before. They >stole all of their possessions, and they did not hesitate to send not >only the adult males to their deaths… but also the old, the young, and >the women. >They did not give them the option of combat. They seized apon the >weakest of all nations, and they hoarded them up before the world. Even >across Europe, the Germans traveled, seeking to destroy the Jew. >They forced them to wear humiliating clothes, they tagged them with >humiliating symbols, and they kept them in concentration camps, until >they would systematically murder them en masse. >To this I state, the world is already dead. I am dead, and with me, the >world. >We have nothing left. The last bell has already sounded. Man has signed >his own death warrant, and sees it not. It is over. We went over the >limit of criminal action which was reserved for us. We have so severely >polluted this planet with criminal actions of such severe heinousness… >that it is impossible for the world to continue. >Yet, the earth still spins. People still "buy and sell" and are still >"given in marriage". The Holocaust revisionists claim "it never >happened" and the atheists claim "the worst thing about the war was >Hiroshima". >Now, just a few decades from this, the world is all set against Israel. >Europe is up in arms over Israel. Even the far East has its’ eyes set on >Israel. And, a billion Muslims work furiously – with all of their >solidarity which they can impressively muster – to destroy Israel. >It is a trap for the world. Not for Israel. Israel is but the means.

Response:

> The interpretation of the verse below by "anonymous" is taken > completely out of context. The verse does NOT apply to Israel an > earthly nation. It is a prophesy which speaks of "Jerusalem" which is > not only an earthly city, but this reference goes beyond that to the > "Heavenly Jerusalem" – the City of God to come in the Parousia.

Where the Heavenly City will be surrounded by enemies on all sides, huh? When Jerusalem sends all of the surrounding nations reeling, huh? After the Heavens and Earth have been destroyed, there will be this, huh? And, of course, just "coincidentally" Israel is sending all of the surrounding nations reeling now, interpreter? And, they want Jerusalem as their capital, just coincidentally? So, coincidentally, this verse is fulfilled, but not according to your own specifications — which, paradoxically, does not make sense? > This > has nothing to do with Israel or the politics of the Jewish people who > rejected the Son of God and still reject Him to this day.

According to you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Zechariah 12:1 >This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD , who stretches >out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the >spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a >cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be >besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of >the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable >rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. >*** >This, is a relatively simple verse. There are many like this. Indeed, >the context of the Book of Zechariah sheds light on many things about >today’s Israel. >But, this verse perhaps best captures… in a few short sentences… the >place where Israel is today. >And, it was written thousands of years ago. >"I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding >peoples reeling." >God made Jerusalem, God made modern Israel, and God is making her >immovable. God made Jerusalem a cup that sends all of the surrounding >peoples reeling. >Ultimately, the Islamists have expressed their desire to expel Israel. >One of their first steps is to gain ground through treaties, because >they have gone the way of war and found Israel to be a very sore thing >to attack. Rather than gain land, they lost land. >As they richly deserved it. >In fact, in the history of the world, there has been no greater outrage. > And, there is no excuse for this outrage. Not only did the Islamists >attack Israel and conquer it, but they desecrated the land completely. >They took over the sacred places, the Temples, the cemeteries, and the >wealth and history of Israel. >But, this is what really infuriates me. The current Islamist war on >Israel and the world’s reaction to it. Instead of standing down, they >stand up, they stand up against Israel and aid the Islamist in his great >outrage. >After all, did these verses not get all? Have they not been spread all >over the world? Is there someway people could have missed these things? >On the contrary, these verses are well known, and for those who do not >know the specifics have heard enough to know there is a very strong >claim that they are there — if they do not look, it is their own fault, >therefore. >This current conflict is not the fault of Israel. There was a peace >agreement signed. Israel, pushed by the US, signed this agreement. The >opposition signed the agreement. Israel received absolutely nothing in >return for this, but gave out a huge parcel of their own land to the >terrorist opposition. >The terrorist opposition then preceded on putting up a state which >issued for a media blitz of hate speech against Israel… in their news, >in their commentary, even in their shows for little children. In their >schoolbooks, they presented an outrageous hate speech against Israel, >and in their schools they put forth plays whereby little children would >play the role of terrorists. >Finally, after years of these things, and increasing acts of terrorism >by these Islamists… the Islamists really got mad. They rose up and >started an "uprising". Which is not an "uprising" at all, but a war. >They collectively started war on Israel, and sent in waves of suicide >bombers. >Israel fought back, and Israel continues to fight back, and the harder >Israel fights back — the less the terrorism on Israel continues. >The Muslim goes far above and beyond this aggression, though. He has >made his religion into a hate religion. He has shifted the course of his >religion of war into a religion of opposition against Israel. >This religion has over one billion adherents. There are educated people >involved in this… and the educated people present a collective face to >the Westerners and to the East. They say, "We didn’t do anything". >But, in the Islamic world, the private world, they present another face. >One which demonizes the Jew, Israel, and anyone whom supports Israel. >The very nature of the "suicide bomber" is a blasphemy… an evil… >which is difficult for me to describe because of its’ horrendous vileness. >First, they call them "martyrs". This is a Greek word the Christians >have been using for persecuted Christians for centuries. When they do >this, they step up and spit on the blood of every Christian martyr. >I say the word is Greek, because it is. In context, it comes directly >from the New Testament, written in Greek. The Muslims knew the context >well when they took it. >Though God did not send them… though, they heard no audible voice from >God, nor a vision, not even a dream… these suicide murderers take it >apon themselves to blow up or otherwise kill masses of innocent people, >and then say, "This is not my work. It is God’s work." >Even worse, all across the Muslim world people celebrate this, not as >some minor thing — but as the holiest of things. The murderers are >celebrated as victorious saints… and we are reminded once again, the >only sure way in Islam to get to Paradise is to "die in jihad". >When I say that this is evil… I mean it is evil in the truest sense of >the word. You could put a rotting, maggot filled corpse before me, and I >would have the same reaction and the same abhorrence for it, outwardly. >Inwardly, it is as if taking a burning iron and scalding my soul’s face >and forehead with it. >It is pure fury, it is pure rage. >Without historical context, these things are bad enough. Without the >blatantly obvious Scripture – which I stand before God and state, "these >people know it" – it would be bad enough. But, within the historical >context, the injustice of these circumstances overrule any trace of >civility or barbarity — ever known to man. >It is an outrage which consumes the soul. It wakes the dead and causes >the Heavens to shudder. >In the historical context, the Jews suffered through millenias of >difficulty, even before being forcibly expelled by Rome. Who committed >these atrocities against the Israelites? The very nations now standing >against her. >Then, the Israelites were completely expelled by Rome. And, for two >millenia she was dispersed through the "four corners of the earth". For >two millenia she wandered, a nation unlike any other, a nation without a >country… the constant foreigner, the ever outsider, and likewise, the >persecuted. >Men use this to Israel’s disadvantage. They say, "God did these things >to you, so we will help him." But, if God has business with Israel, what >business it is of men? These men think so highly of themselves, that >they would presume to act on the behalf of the Lord Almighty — who did >not send them? That they did, and this, they continue to do. >Israel was formed again out of pure necessity, in the eyes of the Jew. >The only truer statement which might be said is that it was by the Hand >of God that Israel was formed again. Don’t take my word for it, God said >this very clearly in the Bible. >Israel was formed out of the horror of the Holocaust and the Stalinist >purges. Israel was not only formed out of these horrors, but out of the >horrors which the world inflicted apon them through these past two >millenia. Horror not difficult to fathom, for Israel… unlike every >other nation in the world, not only did not have a defense system, an >army to protect itself with… but, Israel didn’t even have its’ land. >I do admit, however, that the horror inflicted apon them by the Nazis >was unlike anything else man has ever done before. They humiliated them >before the nations. They stood up and slandered them, more viciously and >more often then any nation has ever done to another nation before. They >stole all of their possessions, and they did not hesitate to send not >only the adult males to their deaths… but also the old, the young, and >the women. >They did not give them the option of combat. They seized apon the >weakest of all nations, and they hoarded them up before the world. Even >across Europe, the Germans traveled, seeking to destroy the Jew. >They forced them to wear humiliating clothes, they tagged them with >humiliating symbols, and they kept them in concentration camps, until >they would systematically murder them en masse. >To this I state, the world is already dead. I am dead, and with me, the >world. >We have nothing left. The last bell has already sounded. Man has signed >his own death warrant, and sees it not. It is over. We went over the >limit of criminal action which was

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Christian Perspective: Why YOU Support Israel: > anonymous: > Talmud > "The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. > They are beasts." > Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b > "The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs." > Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b [ that includes you anonymous] > Insults Against Blessed Mary > Sanhedrin 106a . Says Mary was a whore: "She who was the descendant > of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in > footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that > in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus > mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men. > Horrible Blasphemy Against Jesus Christ > Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement." > Sanhedrin 43a. Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, > Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged…Do you suppose that he was one for whom a > defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?" > Talmud Attacks Non jews beliefs > Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the > Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations. > Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the > New Testament.

What Christian church to you belong to adder21? Tilly —

Response:

Christian Perspective: Why YOU Support Israel: anonymous: Talmud "The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts." Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b "The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs." Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b [ that includes you anonymous] Insults Against Blessed Mary Sanhedrin 106a . Says Mary was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men. Horrible Blasphemy Against Jesus Christ Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement." Sanhedrin 43a. Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged…Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?" Talmud Attacks Non jews beliefs Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations. Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.

Response:

The interpretation of the verse below by "anonymous" is taken completely out of context. The verse does NOT apply to Israel an earthly nation. It is a prophesy which speaks of "Jerusalem" which is not only an earthly city, but this reference goes beyond that to the "Heavenly Jerusalem" – the City of God to come in the Parousia. This has nothing to do with Israel or the politics of the Jewish people who rejected the Son of God and still reject Him to this day. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Zechariah 12:1 > This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD , who stretches > out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the > spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a > cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be > besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of > the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable > rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. > *** > This, is a relatively simple verse. There are many like this. Indeed, > the context of the Book of Zechariah sheds light on many things about > today’s Israel. > But, this verse perhaps best captures… in a few short sentences… the > place where Israel is today. > And, it was written thousands of years ago. > "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding > peoples reeling." > God made Jerusalem, God made modern Israel, and God is making her > immovable. God made Jerusalem a cup that sends all of the surrounding > peoples reeling. > Ultimately, the Islamists have expressed their desire to expel Israel. > One of their first steps is to gain ground through treaties, because > they have gone the way of war and found Israel to be a very sore thing > to attack. Rather than gain land, they lost land. > As they richly deserved it. > In fact, in the history of the world, there has been no greater outrage. > And, there is no excuse for this outrage. Not only did the Islamists > attack Israel and conquer it, but they desecrated the land completely. > They took over the sacred places, the Temples, the cemeteries, and the > wealth and history of Israel. > But, this is what really infuriates me. The current Islamist war on > Israel and the world’s reaction to it. Instead of standing down, they > stand up, they stand up against Israel and aid the Islamist in his great > outrage. > After all, did these verses not get all? Have they not been spread all > over the world? Is there someway people could have missed these things? > On the contrary, these verses are well known, and for those who do not > know the specifics have heard enough to know there is a very strong > claim that they are there — if they do not look, it is their own fault, > therefore. > This current conflict is not the fault of Israel. There was a peace > agreement signed. Israel, pushed by the US, signed this agreement. The > opposition signed the agreement. Israel received absolutely nothing in > return for this, but gave out a huge parcel of their own land to the > terrorist opposition. > The terrorist opposition then preceded on putting up a state which > issued for a media blitz of hate speech against Israel… in their news, > in their commentary, even in their shows for little children. In their > schoolbooks, they presented an outrageous hate speech against Israel, > and in their schools they put forth plays whereby little children would > play the role of terrorists. > Finally, after years of these things, and increasing acts of terrorism > by these Islamists… the Islamists really got mad. They rose up and > started an "uprising". Which is not an "uprising" at all, but a war. > They collectively started war on Israel, and sent in waves of suicide > bombers. > Israel fought back, and Israel continues to fight back, and the harder > Israel fights back — the less the terrorism on Israel continues. > The Muslim goes far above and beyond this aggression, though. He has > made his religion into a hate religion. He has shifted the course of his > religion of war into a religion of opposition against Israel. > This religion has over one billion adherents. There are educated people > involved in this… and the educated people present a collective face to > the Westerners and to the East. They say, "We didn’t do anything". > But, in the Islamic world, the private world, they present another face. > One which demonizes the Jew, Israel, and anyone whom supports Israel. > The very nature of the "suicide bomber" is a blasphemy… an evil… > which is difficult for me to describe because of its’ horrendous vileness. > First, they call them "martyrs". This is a Greek word the Christians > have been using for persecuted Christians for centuries. When they do > this, they step up and spit on the blood of every Christian martyr. > I say the word is Greek, because it is. In context, it comes directly > from the New Testament, written in Greek. The Muslims knew the context > well when they took it. > Though God did not send them… though, they heard no audible voice from > God, nor a vision, not even a dream… these suicide murderers take it > apon themselves to blow up or otherwise kill masses of innocent people, > and then say, "This is not my work. It is God’s work." > Even worse, all across the Muslim world people celebrate this, not as > some minor thing — but as the holiest of things. The murderers are > celebrated as victorious saints… and we are reminded once again, the > only sure way in Islam to get to Paradise is to "die in jihad". > When I say that this is evil… I mean it is evil in the truest sense of > the word. You could put a rotting, maggot filled corpse before me, and I > would have the same reaction and the same abhorrence for it, outwardly. > Inwardly, it is as if taking a burning iron and scalding my soul’s face > and forehead with it. > It is pure fury, it is pure rage. > Without historical context, these things are bad enough. Without the > blatantly obvious Scripture – which I stand before God and state, "these > people know it" – it would be bad enough. But, within the historical > context, the injustice of these circumstances overrule any trace of > civility or barbarity — ever known to man. > It is an outrage which consumes the soul. It wakes the dead and causes > the Heavens to shudder. > In the historical context, the Jews suffered through millenias of > difficulty, even before being forcibly expelled by Rome. Who committed > these atrocities against the Israelites? The very nations now standing > against her. > Then, the Israelites were completely expelled by Rome. And, for two > millenia she was dispersed through the "four corners of the earth". For > two millenia she wandered, a nation unlike any other, a nation without a > country… the constant foreigner, the ever outsider, and likewise, the > persecuted. > Men use this to Israel’s disadvantage. They say, "God did these things > to you, so we will help him." But, if God has business with Israel, what > business it is of men? These men think so highly of themselves, that > they would presume to act on the behalf of the Lord Almighty — who did > not send them? That they did, and this, they continue to do. > Israel was formed again out of pure necessity, in the eyes of the Jew. > The only truer statement which might be said is that it was by the Hand > of God that Israel was formed again. Don’t take my word for it, God said > this very clearly in the Bible. > Israel was formed out of the horror of the Holocaust and the Stalinist > purges. Israel was not only formed out of these horrors, but out of the > horrors which the world inflicted apon them through these past two > millenia. Horror not difficult to fathom, for Israel… unlike every > other nation in the world, not only did not have a defense system, an > army to protect itself with… but, Israel didn’t even have its’ land. > I do admit, however, that the horror inflicted apon them by the Nazis > was unlike anything else man has ever done before. They humiliated them > before the nations. They stood up and slandered them, more viciously and > more often then any nation has ever done to another nation before. They > stole all of their possessions, and they did not hesitate to send not > only the adult males to their deaths… but also the old, the young, and > the women. > They did not give them the option of combat. They seized apon the > weakest of all nations, and they hoarded them up before the world. Even > across Europe, the Germans traveled, seeking to destroy the Jew. > They forced them to wear humiliating clothes, they tagged them with > humiliating symbols, and they kept them in concentration camps, until > they would systematically murder them en masse. > To this I state, the world is already dead. I am dead, and with me, the > world. > We have nothing left. The last bell has already sounded. Man has signed > his own death warrant, and sees it not. It is over. We went over the > limit of criminal action which was reserved for us. We have so severely > polluted this planet with criminal actions of such severe heinousness… > that it is impossible for the world to continue. > Yet, the earth still spins. People still "buy and sell" and are still > "given in marriage". The Holocaust revisionists claim "it never > happened" and the atheists claim "the worst thing about the war was > Hiroshima". > Now, just a few decades from this, the world is all set against Israel. > Europe is up in arms over Israel. Even the far East has its’ eyes set on > Israel. And, a billion Muslims work furiously – with

Response:

Nor Palestinian!! (Signed) Al

Response:

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. I believe a Christian should first seek Justice for the oppressed – not put Jewish Culture first.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Zechariah 12:1 > This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD , who stretches > out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the > spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a > cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be > besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of > the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable > rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. > *** > This, is a relatively simple verse. There are many like this. Indeed, > the context of the Book of Zechariah sheds light on many things about > today’s Israel. > But, this verse perhaps best captures… in a few short sentences… the > place where Israel is today. > And, it was written thousands of years ago. > "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding > peoples reeling." > God made Jerusalem, God made modern Israel, and God is making her > immovable. God made Jerusalem a cup that sends all of the surrounding > peoples reeling. > Ultimately, the Islamists have expressed their desire to expel Israel. > One of their first steps is to gain ground through treaties, because > they have gone the way of war and found Israel to be a very sore thing > to attack. Rather than gain land, they lost land. > As they richly deserved it. > In fact, in the history of the world, there has been no greater outrage. > And, there is no excuse for this outrage. Not only did the Islamists > attack Israel and conquer it, but they desecrated the land completely. > They took over the sacred places, the Temples, the cemeteries, and the > wealth and history of Israel. > But, this is what really infuriates me. The current Islamist war on > Israel and the world’s reaction to it. Instead of standing down, they > stand up, they stand up against Israel and aid the Islamist in his great > outrage. > After all, did these verses not get all? Have they not been spread all > over the world? Is there someway people could have missed these things? > On the contrary, these verses are well known, and for those who do not > know the specifics have heard enough to know there is a very strong > claim that they are there — if they do not look, it is their own fault, > therefore. > This current conflict is not the fault of Israel. There was a peace > agreement signed. Israel, pushed by the US, signed this agreement. The > opposition signed the agreement. Israel received absolutely nothing in > return for this, but gave out a huge parcel of their own land to the > terrorist opposition. > The terrorist opposition then preceded on putting up a state which > issued for a media blitz of hate speech against Israel… in their news, > in their commentary, even in their shows for little children. In their > schoolbooks, they presented an outrageous hate speech against Israel, > and in their schools they put forth plays whereby little children would > play the role of terrorists. > Finally, after years of these things, and increasing acts of terrorism > by these Islamists… the Islamists really got mad. They rose up and > started an "uprising". Which is not an "uprising" at all, but a war. > They collectively started war on Israel, and sent in waves of suicide > bombers. > Israel fought back, and Israel continues to fight back, and the harder > Israel fights back — the less the terrorism on Israel continues. > The Muslim goes far above and beyond this aggression, though. He has > made his religion into a hate religion. He has shifted the course of his > religion of war into a religion of opposition against Israel. > This religion has over one billion adherents. There are educated people > involved in this… and the educated people present a collective face to > the Westerners and to the East. They say, "We didn’t do anything". > But, in the Islamic world, the private world, they present another face. > One which demonizes the Jew, Israel, and anyone whom supports Israel. > The very nature of the "suicide bomber" is a blasphemy… an evil… > which is difficult for me to describe because of its’ horrendous vileness. > First, they call them "martyrs". This is a Greek word the Christians > have been using for persecuted Christians for centuries. When they do > this, they step up and spit on the blood of every Christian martyr. > I say the word is Greek, because it is. In context, it comes directly > from the New Testament, written in Greek. The Muslims knew the context > well when they took it. > Though God did not send them… though, they heard no audible voice from > God, nor a vision, not even a dream… these suicide murderers take it > apon themselves to blow up or otherwise kill masses of innocent people, > and then say, "This is not my work. It is God’s work." > Even worse, all across the Muslim world people celebrate this, not as > some minor thing — but as the holiest of things. The murderers are > celebrated as victorious saints… and we are reminded once again, the > only sure way in Islam to get to Paradise is to "die in jihad". > When I say that this is evil… I mean it is evil in the truest sense of > the word. You could put a rotting, maggot filled corpse before me, and I > would have the same reaction and the same abhorrence for it, outwardly. > Inwardly, it is as if taking a burning iron and scalding my soul’s face > and forehead with it. > It is pure fury, it is pure rage. > Without historical context, these things are bad enough. Without the > blatantly obvious Scripture – which I stand before God and state, "these > people know it" – it would be bad enough. But, within the historical > context, the injustice of these circumstances overrule any trace of > civility or barbarity — ever known to man. > It is an outrage which consumes the soul. It wakes the dead and causes > the Heavens to shudder. > In the historical context, the Jews suffered through millenias of > difficulty, even before being forcibly expelled by Rome. Who committed > these atrocities against the Israelites? The very nations now standing > against her. > Then, the Israelites were completely expelled by Rome. And, for two > millenia she was dispersed through the "four corners of the earth". For > two millenia she wandered, a nation unlike any other, a nation without a > country… the constant foreigner, the ever outsider, and likewise, the > persecuted. > Men use this to Israel’s disadvantage. They say, "God did these things > to you, so we will help him." But, if God has business with Israel, what > business it is of men? These men think so highly of themselves, that > they would presume to act on the behalf of the Lord Almighty — who did > not send them? That they did, and this, they continue to do. > Israel was formed again out of pure necessity, in the eyes of the Jew. > The only truer statement which might be said is that it was by the Hand > of God that Israel was formed again. Don’t take my word for it, God said > this very clearly in the Bible. > Israel was formed out of the horror of the Holocaust and the Stalinist > purges. Israel was not only formed out of these horrors, but out of the > horrors which the world inflicted apon them through these past two > millenia. Horror not difficult to fathom, for Israel… unlike every > other nation in the world, not only did not have a defense system, an > army to protect itself with… but, Israel didn’t even have its’ land. > I do admit, however, that the horror inflicted apon them by the Nazis > was unlike anything else man has ever done before. They humiliated them > before the nations. They stood up and slandered them, more viciously and > more often then any nation has ever done to another nation before. They > stole all of their possessions, and they did not hesitate to send not > only the adult males to their deaths… but also the old, the young, and > the women. > They did not give them the option of combat. They seized apon the > weakest of all nations, and they hoarded them up before the world. Even > across Europe, the Germans traveled, seeking to destroy the Jew. > They forced them to wear humiliating clothes, they tagged them with > humiliating symbols, and they kept them in concentration camps, until > they would systematically murder them en masse. > To this I state, the world is already dead. I am dead, and with me, the > world. > We have nothing left. The last bell has already sounded. Man has signed > his own death warrant, and sees it not. It is over. We went over the > limit of criminal action which was reserved for us. We have so severely > polluted this planet with criminal actions of such severe heinousness… > that it is impossible for the world to continue. > Yet, the earth still spins. People still "buy and sell" and are still > "given in marriage". The Holocaust revisionists claim "it never > happened" and the atheists claim "the worst thing about the war was > Hiroshima". > Now, just a few decades from this, the world is all set against Israel. > Europe is up in arms over Israel. Even the far East has its’ eyes set on > Israel. And, a billion Muslims work furiously – with all of their > solidarity which they can impressively muster – to destroy Israel. > It is a trap for the world. Not for Israel. Israel is but the means. > Because historical context means everything. I often reiterate the old > phrase, "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it". But, had > the people of the world forgotten the past of the Jews — they would not > be as

Response:

Zechariah 12:1 This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD , who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. *** This, is a relatively simple verse. There are many like this. Indeed, the context of the Book of Zechariah sheds light on many things about today’s Israel. But, this verse perhaps best captures… in a few short sentences… the place where Israel is today. And, it was written thousands of years ago. "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling." God made Jerusalem, God made modern Israel, and God is making her immovable. God made Jerusalem a cup that sends all of the surrounding peoples reeling. Ultimately, the Islamists have expressed their desire to expel Israel. One of their first steps is to gain ground through treaties, because they have gone the way of war and found Israel to be a very sore thing to attack. Rather than gain land, they lost land. As they richly deserved it. In fact, in the history of the world, there has been no greater outrage. And, there is no excuse for this outrage. Not only did the Islamists attack Israel and conquer it, but they desecrated the land completely. They took over the sacred places, the Temples, the cemeteries, and the wealth and history of Israel. But, this is what really infuriates me. The current Islamist war on Israel and the world’s reaction to it. Instead of standing down, they stand up, they stand up against Israel and aid the Islamist in his great outrage. After all, did these verses not get all? Have they not been spread all over the world? Is there someway people could have missed these things? On the contrary, these verses are well known, and for those who do not know the specifics have heard enough to know there is a very strong claim that they are there — if they do not look, it is their own fault, therefore. This current conflict is not the fault of Israel. There was a peace agreement signed. Israel, pushed by the US, signed this agreement. The opposition signed the agreement. Israel received absolutely nothing in return for this, but gave out a huge parcel of their own land to the terrorist opposition. The terrorist opposition then preceded on putting up a state which issued for a media blitz of hate speech against Israel… in their news, in their commentary, even in their shows for little children. In their schoolbooks, they presented an outrageous hate speech against Israel, and in their schools they put forth plays whereby little children would play the role of terrorists. Finally, after years of these things, and increasing acts of terrorism by these Islamists… the Islamists really got mad. They rose up and started an "uprising". Which is not an "uprising" at all, but a war. They collectively started war on Israel, and sent in waves of suicide bombers. Israel fought back, and Israel continues to fight back, and the harder Israel fights back — the less the terrorism on Israel continues. The Muslim goes far above and beyond this aggression, though. He has made his religion into a hate religion. He has shifted the course of his religion of war into a religion of opposition against Israel. This religion has over one billion adherents. There are educated people involved in this… and the educated people present a collective face to the Westerners and to the East. They say, "We didn’t do anything". But, in the Islamic world, the private world, they present another face. One which demonizes the Jew, Israel, and anyone whom supports Israel. The very nature of the "suicide bomber" is a blasphemy… an evil… which is difficult for me to describe because of its’ horrendous vileness. First, they call them "martyrs". This is a Greek word the Christians have been using for persecuted Christians for centuries. When they do this, they step up and spit on the blood of every Christian martyr. I say the word is Greek, because it is. In context, it comes directly from the New Testament, written in Greek. The Muslims knew the context well when they took it. Though God did not send them… though, they heard no audible voice from God, nor a vision, not even a dream… these suicide murderers take it apon themselves to blow up or otherwise kill masses of innocent people, and then say, "This is not my work. It is God’s work." Even worse, all across the Muslim world people celebrate this, not as some minor thing — but as the holiest of things. The murderers are celebrated as victorious saints… and we are reminded once again, the only sure way in Islam to get to Paradise is to "die in jihad". When I say that this is evil… I mean it is evil in the truest sense of the word. You could put a rotting, maggot filled corpse before me, and I would have the same reaction and the same abhorrence for it, outwardly. Inwardly, it is as if taking a burning iron and scalding my soul’s face and forehead with it. It is pure fury, it is pure rage. Without historical context, these things are bad enough. Without the blatantly obvious Scripture – which I stand before God and state, "these people know it" – it would be bad enough. But, within the historical context, the injustice of these circumstances overrule any trace of civility or barbarity — ever known to man. It is an outrage which consumes the soul. It wakes the dead and causes the Heavens to shudder. In the historical context, the Jews suffered through millenias of difficulty, even before being forcibly expelled by Rome. Who committed these atrocities against the Israelites? The very nations now standing against her. Then, the Israelites were completely expelled by Rome. And, for two millenia she was dispersed through the "four corners of the earth". For two millenia she wandered, a nation unlike any other, a nation without a country… the constant foreigner, the ever outsider, and likewise, the persecuted. Men use this to Israel’s disadvantage. They say, "God did these things to you, so we will help him." But, if God has business with Israel, what business it is of men? These men think so highly of themselves, that they would presume to act on the behalf of the Lord Almighty — who did not send them? That they did, and this, they continue to do. Israel was formed again out of pure necessity, in the eyes of the Jew. The only truer statement which might be said is that it was by the Hand of God that Israel was formed again. Don’t take my word for it, God said this very clearly in the Bible. Israel was formed out of the horror of the Holocaust and the Stalinist purges. Israel was not only formed out of these horrors, but out of the horrors which the world inflicted apon them through these past two millenia. Horror not difficult to fathom, for Israel… unlike every other nation in the world, not only did not have a defense system, an army to protect itself with… but, Israel didn’t even have its’ land. I do admit, however, that the horror inflicted apon them by the Nazis was unlike anything else man has ever done before. They humiliated them before the nations. They stood up and slandered them, more viciously and more often then any nation has ever done to another nation before. They stole all of their possessions, and they did not hesitate to send not only the adult males to their deaths… but also the old, the young, and the women. They did not give them the option of combat. They seized apon the weakest of all nations, and they hoarded them up before the world. Even across Europe, the Germans traveled, seeking to destroy the Jew. They forced them to wear humiliating clothes, they tagged them with humiliating symbols, and they kept them in concentration camps, until they would systematically murder them en masse. To this I state, the world is already dead. I am dead, and with me, the world. We have nothing left. The last bell has already sounded. Man has signed his own death warrant, and sees it not. It is over. We went over the limit of criminal action which was reserved for us. We have so severely polluted this planet with criminal actions of such severe heinousness… that it is impossible for the world to continue. Yet, the earth still spins. People still "buy and sell" and are still "given in marriage". The Holocaust revisionists claim "it never happened" and the atheists claim "the worst thing about the war was Hiroshima". Now, just a few decades from this, the world is all set against Israel. Europe is up in arms over Israel. Even the far East has its’ eyes set on Israel. And, a billion Muslims work furiously – with all of their solidarity which they can impressively muster – to destroy Israel. It is a trap for the world. Not for Israel. Israel is but the means. Because historical context means everything. I often reiterate the old phrase, "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it". But, had the people of the world forgotten the past of the Jews — they would not be as utterly guilty as they are now. Indeed, it does not matter if they are not a suicide murderer of Islam. It does not matter if they pull the trigger. It matters that they have embraced such an error of millenia erosion wholeheartedly. It matters when they say, speaking of Islamist terrorism, "Terrorism is justified". It matters when the Islamists shares Jewish hate literature and speeches with each other, knowing full and well they have become the children of all of the ancestors of the world whom did these horrible things to the Jews.

Response:

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