Aids HIV FAQ

Hearing Aids

Question:

If there is trouble with this entry please be tolerant; this is the first time I have posted anything to net news. I am not sure where/how to post this (suggestions appreciated).         I find that my hearing is getting worse, particularly the high frequencies. I find that I miss conversations at work, particularly from female voices. To continue working I feel that I must get help. I know nothing about hearing aids; good bad or indifferent. I have been told that they are useless in that they amplify the background noise as well as what you want to hear and that most people throw them away after a short time?         I will appreciate any info any one can provide including references to literature, recommendations etc.     Thanks, In advance, Ray Schmidt .

Response:

>    I find that my hearing is getting worse, particularly the high >frequencies. I find that I miss conversations at work, particularly from >female voices. To continue working I feel that I must get help. >I know nothing about hearing aids; good bad or indifferent. I have been >told that they are useless in that they amplify the background noise as >well as what you want to hear and that most people throw them away after >a short time?

Get your hearing tested by a competent audiologist, talk to him/her and the ENT who referred you (the Way It’s Done, at least in Canada). Ask questions, and more questions. I’ve heard of hearing aid sales staff that prey on people by selling that what’s got the best margins, so I chose the medical route. I finally decided that I’d had enough of losing parts of words and went for tests about 5 years ago (reluctantly, I admit; I’m too young for a hearing aid. Aren’t I?). The feeling at the time was that the hearing loss wasn’t bad enough, and to get re-tested annually or so. I’ve now had my aid for 2 years, and won’t do without it! It’s not perfect, but it’s better than the alternative. You have to learn how to use it, take care of it, etc., but I certainly find it’s worth the effort. — Robert Allison Ottawa, Ontario CANADA

Response:

>LOTS OF COMMENTS: >Dick, I thought you were OK, but – - – >Anyone reading the subject line of this post and then reading the text is >going to figure we’ve got one or two loose cannons in this n/g.   >Hearing aids: get your vision corrected – all glass not same – have >ophthalmologist check, etc.  (?) >Doggone it Dick, I think you could screw up a one car parade.  Not only >that, but we’ll probably be hearing from the resident Net Nanny about >about such discombobulated (sp?) postings.

Sorry if it ruined your day Don… but since my wife recently had just that kinda problem… ( irrespective of what Ed said ) ie. badly ground glasses from a discount place… Thought I’d throw in the comment… might save someone else the same discomfort… Next time I’ll ask your permission… Would that make you happy ?? Dick

Response:

> Sorry if it ruined your day Don… but since my wife recently had just > that kinda problem… ( irrespective of what Ed said ) ie. badly > ground glasses from a discount place… Thought I’d throw in the > comment… might save someone else the same discomfort… > Next time I’ll ask your permission… Would that make you happy ?? > Dick

COMMENTS: Naw, *I’m* not the resident Net-Nanny.   Seriously though, thanks for the tip. Don    :-) Don Finch http://freenet.buffalo.edu/facts – -  Tonawanda, N.Y. & Manhattan Project                                        (World’s 1st Atomic Bombs) http://freenet.buffalo.edu/wnykwva –  Korean War Vets, WNY Chapter

Response:

> My problem is greatest when, say, in a meeting or among a small > group of people where I cannot look at the person speaking in all > instances.  I can hear men’s voices usually well, but women who speak softly > often I cannot hear at all even if they are but a few feet away. > A friend who worked in the field told me a hearing aid would not be > helpful in this kind of situation.

Nita, I suspect your friend is entirely correct.   My problem is very much like you describe.  There are many aspects to the sense of "hearing".      It’s much, much, more than simply losing sensitivity. There are frequency(pitch) and selectivity aspects to be considered and corrected if possible. > I went to a small group meeting the other night — six or eight people > sitting say six to eight feet from me in a sort of circle.  I had to tell > the women to speak up.  This is getting tedious (for me and presumably for > others). > But before I test and shop etc., I would like to know what I am doing.

Your best bet would be to obtain the services of the best Ear/Nose/Throat Doc you can find. You’re discussing a very complex subject here. There are many types of hearing loss that can be helped by electronic aids.  But, there are some that cannot.  The most difficult are those that pertain to differentation and discrimination of sounds and the ability of your ears/nerves/brain to "focus" on particular sounds. Fortunately, I have a very good ENT Doc.  After checking out all my hearing equipment, and reviewing the results of an extensive hearing test, he told me to hold off on a hearing aid for as long as possible because I was likely to have little success with them.  The nature of my problem is, unfortunately, one of the more intractable ones; I hope yours is not. Dave — Optimism.  It’s the only attitude that makes any sense in this world.

Response:

Ed, there may be a case for a generic hearing aid just as there is a case for generic reading glasses from the drugstores. But I know for sure that though its not too bad yet, I’ve got a 15-20% hearing loss in my left ear, probably caused from flying and being around jets, that is very frequency specific. It only affects pretty high frequencies. If I listen to something loud, it is just that – loud. I don’t hear those upper frequencies much better. So, if I’m listening to certain voices, especially certain women, and don’t turn my head just right, I can’t always make out certain words that they say. Amplifying them enough for me to hear those upper frequencies (maybe their S’s, but I’m not always sure since I have trouble making out some words?) might make the lower frequencies overly loud. So, I think if one has a general decline in hearing, a generic hearing aid would be fine. But I think that the loss of high frequencies is more common, but probably not consistent enough from person to person to be sure of it working. Now if they included a simple way to shift the frequency response curve – such as a little screw turned to shift the loudness more at the top frequencies, or more at the bottom frequencies – then a generic could be much more useful. I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t already have that feature, but that the docs keep the adjustment instructions a secret. Chuck

snipppp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I suspect we are very close to a generic hearing aid, virtually over the > counter. In fact, we’re pretty close already.  I knew a Texas Instrument > engineer who, we thought, always listened to a Walkman.  Turned out he > had a Walkman headset, all right, but his picket box held a nice little > mike. He said it cost him about six bucks in spare parts, and the kids > thought he was pretty cool looking.   (I was never REALLY sure he wasn’t > listening to the music rather than me, but if so, he faked it good.) > — > EAH >      Otium cum dignitate

Response:

> I can’t believe that the little in the canal hearing aid that I recenty > purchased cost more than the computer I am using.  Nor do I believe that it > has the same degree of technology.  After a few (actually many) suggestions > from my wife and golfing buddies that I do something about my hearing loss I > got myself tested and set about to check out the price of the different > hearing aids.  My search revealed that they are all about the same.  I could > have saved money of course by buying one that fit on the outside of the ear, > but my male ego and vanity required a less noticible device.  This has got > to be a profitable business without a doubt, but what is the justification > for such high prices? > Lon

As far as I can see, there is no real justification except lack of competition and overcharging to and beyond the limit for anything that people really need. Go in any medical supply store to check this out. My mother had a "special order" wheel chair cuz she was only 4 feet 11 inches. Cost 1200 bucks – why couldn’t they have just sold her a child’s wheel chair?  After she died (in Florida) the medical stores only wanted to pay 50 dollars for it and she only used it in the nursing home and it was hardly used. I donated it to a Veteran’s thrift shop rather than resell it to those bloodsuckers. UPS wanted something like 200 bucks to ship it out here to San Diego and that was knocked down in a cardboard carton (all taken apart.) Bill Watts

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I can’t believe that the little in the canal hearing aid that I recenty > > purchased cost more than the computer I am using.  Nor do I believe that it > > has the same degree of technology.  After a few (actually many) suggestions > > from my wife and golfing buddies that I do something about my hearing loss I > > got myself tested and set about to check out the price of the different > > hearing aids.  My search revealed that they are all about the same.  I could > > have saved money of course by buying one that fit on the outside of the ear, > > but my male ego and vanity required a less noticible device.  This has got > > to be a profitable business without a doubt, but what is the justification > > for such high prices? > > Lon > COMMENT: > Lon, I believe you just may have answered your own question: > – - – but my male ego and vanity required a less noticeable device. – - – > Don    ;-) > Don Finch > http://freenet.buffalo.edu/facts – -  Tonawanda, N.Y. & Manhattan Project >                                        (World’s 1st Atomic Bombs) > http://freenet.buffalo.edu/wnykwva –  Korean War Vets, WNY Chapter > Great question, but the answer is simply that NO manufacturer will ever > cut his price a penny, because they saw what happened to eye-glasses > when a few states allowed low-price suppliers in.  Prices dropped by > fifty percent. > The Unions had a lot to do with this, setting up low-priced optometrists > for their members, then letting in family members and then friends, etc. >  When I first came to New york in the forties, you could not buy a pair > of cheap classes anywhere.  The easiest prescription cost forty or fity > bucks (and that was a LOT then), and it took a week. > Soon after I got here I had to visit a Shell Oil rfefinery for a story, > and they wanted me to have safety glasses, so they took my prescription > and came back in a couple of hours with a duplicate pair of glasses, in > hardened glass — for thirteen buck … their cost!  That’s when i > suspected something was missing in my understanding of optics. > Now there are cheapo shops all over town, where, if you’ll settle for a > cheap frame you can at least get your vision corrected, and in about an > hour.  (Of course, your vanity can set you back a couple of hundred, if > you want to pay that for three cents worth of plastic blessed by Ralph > Lauren.) > I suspect the same thing will happen in hearing aids.  The technology > is  trivial and the harrumphing that goes on about fitting you and > turning to your own wave length, etc., is laughable.  One of these days > some offshoot of Microsoft will offer a fifty dollar hearing aid that > works — and then everyone will accuse Gates of stealing a market. > Meanwhile, go with the visible aid — it has an advantage:  people know > you have problems hearing, and they act appropriately.  And you would be > astounded at how many don’t give a poop what you wear. > — > EAH >      Otium cum dignitate

This reminds me of a joke I heard long ago – an optometrist was teaching his son the business and told him how to set prices. "You start off by saying ‘That’ll be fifty dollars’. If they don’t flinch, you say ‘For the frames and fifty dollars for the lenses.’ If they still don’t flinch, you say ‘Each.’" Bill Watts

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Now there are cheapo shops all over town, where, if you’ll settle for a >cheap frame you can at least get your vision corrected, and in about an >hour.  (Of course, your vanity can set you back a couple of hundred, if >you want to pay that for three cents worth of plastic blessed by Ralph >Lauren.) > A lot of what you say is true but not all… all glass is not the > same. Not for window glass, not for eye glasses… and with eye > glasses, the grinding can be precision or much less than precision… > If you are buying from somebody new… regardless of how much you > paid… expensive don’t make for quality either… Have them checked > by your ophthalmologist… most of them will do it for free… and it > sure beats having headaches. > Dick

LOTS OF COMMENTS: Dick, I thought you were OK, but – - – Anyone reading the subject line of this post and then reading the text is going to figure we’ve got one or two loose cannons in this n/g.   Hearing aids: get your vision corrected – all glass not same – have ophthalmologist check, etc.  (?) Doggone it Dick, I think you could screw up a one car parade.  Not only that, but we’ll probably be hearing from the resident Net Nanny about about such discombobulated (sp?) postings. Hope you know, I’m just picking on you.  We *all* love ya’, no matter what. I know, I know – *Someone* is going to come back and tell me not to include them in that "We *all* love ya’" bit. Speaking of – - – - logists: Sam had a glass eye.  Whenever the eye socket would become irritated, he would take the artificial eye out and rinse it in his mouth and then reinsert it.  One day, while doing this, he accidentally swallowed the glass eye.  Next day, he started having pains in his posterior.  So, he decided to go to his proctologist and see if he could determine what was wrong. After ‘assuming the angle’ the Doc took a look.  Suddenly, the Doc said "I don’t believe this!"  "What’s wrong?" said Sam rather nervously. Doc said "I’ve been in this practice over thirty years now and have looked up a lot of a[CENSORED]s, but this is the first time I’ve had one look back at me!" Don          [Running for flak jacket and helmet] Don Finch http://freenet.buffalo.edu/facts – -  Tonawanda, N.Y. & Manhattan Project                                        (World’s 1st Atomic Bombs) http://freenet.buffalo.edu/wnykwva –  Korean War Vets, WNY Chapter

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Now there are cheapo shops all over town, where, if you’ll settle for a >cheap frame you can at least get your vision corrected, and in about an >hour.  (Of course, your vanity can set you back a couple of hundred, if >you want to pay that for three cents worth of plastic blessed by Ralph >Lauren.) > A lot of what you say is true but not all… all glass is not the > same. Not for window glass, not for eye glasses… and with eye > glasses, the grinding can be precision or much less than precision… > If you are buying from somebody new… regardless of how much you > paid… expensive don’t make for quality either… Have them checked > by your ophthalmologist… most of them will do it for free… and it > sure beats having headaches. > Dick

In general, eyeglass quality if far superior to what we used to get, which generally came from little grinding shops in Brooklyn operated by mostly Polish immigrants. As I recall from my experience work on Bausch and Lomb, optical glass is pretty generic; Tempered glass for safety reasons costs a little more, as does tinting. So is optical plastic. Since the grinding is now totally automated and computerized, there isn’t much room for error. In NY, any optometrist will check your glasses against the prescription. My point wasn’t about glasses, but hearing aids and the path of improvement to be expected.  In fairly recent years, it has become legal for drug stores to sell over-the-counter glasses, to various diopters, useful for emergency reading glasses.  No good for those with astigmatism, of course.  But for decades,  the optometrists’ lobby prevented the sale of such glasses with weary warnings about ruining ones eyes.  My B & L people confessed that the incidence of ruining was too small to be measured. I suspect we are very close to a generic hearing aid, virtually over the counter. In fact, we’re pretty close already.  I knew a Texas Instrument engineer who, we thought, always listened to a Walkman.  Turned out he had a Walkman headset, all right, but his picket box held a nice little mike. He said it cost him about six bucks in spare parts, and the kids thought he was pretty cool looking.   (I was never REALLY sure he wasn’t listening to the music rather than me, but if so, he faked it good.)   — EAH      Otium cum dignitate

Response:

> Meanwhile, go with the visible aid — it has an advantage:  people know > you have problems hearing, and they act appropriately.  And you would be > astounded at how many don’t give a poop what you wear.

A visible aid has another advantage.  When someone is talking at you , and you would like them to shut up; simply remove your aid and stuff in your pocket with great flourish.  Works every time. Jim Md.

Response:

>Now there are cheapo shops all over town, where, if you’ll settle for a >cheap frame you can at least get your vision corrected, and in about an >hour.  (Of course, your vanity can set you back a couple of hundred, if >you want to pay that for three cents worth of plastic blessed by Ralph >Lauren.)

A lot of what you say is true but not all… all glass is not the same. Not for window glass, not for eye glasses… and with eye glasses, the grinding can be precision or much less than precision… If you are buying from somebody new… regardless of how much you paid… expensive don’t make for quality either… Have them checked by your ophthalmologist… most of them will do it for free… and it sure beats having headaches. Dick

Response:

> (snipped) >The technology is  trivial and the harrumphing that goes on about fitting >you and turning to your own wave length, etc., is laughable. > More "meadow muffins" from the resident nay sayer. I hope when you > need hearing aids you don’t find the technology to trivial and laughable.

El sordido: I quote your previous post, in the interest of keeping all the hockey pucks together.  As the resident naysayer, I get to tell you non-residents not to nay-say on my territory: Quote from Sordid: Typically, hearing aid dispensers use markups of 300% or more on hearing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> aid sales. They are very reluctant to disclose the actual price of the hardware > from the bundled package price of a hearing aid. Bundling the hearing aid with > a whole rath of intangible items helps them justify the +300% markup on the > quoted pricing. An informed consumer can save a lot of money by competitive > shopping for a hearing aid. It is a competitive business and they will all cut > you a deal if you ask for it. Just like buying a car, once you know what model > you want, shop price and don’t be afraid to haggle. As a consumer, you owe > it to yourself to get the most for your money. > The top manufacturers of the top competitive models are very close in their > pricing as well as features. Like Lincoln and Cadillac, comparable hearing > aids are priced closely. > Lack of consumer knowledge keeps them in business. They rely on first > time customers ignorance and charge whatever traffic will bear. Dealers > with opulent stores and a large staff will have to charge more to cover their > overhead and you, the consumer, pay the price as there are no controls on > what they can and do, charge. While there are plenty of laws on the books > It’s a damn shame that an industry goes without regulation that preys on > the elderly who represent the most of the hearing impaired. > sordo

Yes, the technology is relatively trivial by today’s standards, and as you say, they relay on the customers’ lack of knowledge …" etc. It’s my nay-say:  I saw it first.  Go get your own.   — EAH      Otium cum dignitate

Response:

"I suspect we are very close to a generic hearing aid, virtually over the counter." This would be true Ed, only if amplification was needed, but there are different kinds of hearing loss (high frequency–low frequency) that varies from person to person just like different vision problems with varying degrees of myopia or astigmtism. Lon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Now there are cheapo shops all over town, where, if you’ll settle for a > >cheap frame you can at least get your vision corrected, and in about an > >hour.  (Of course, your vanity can set you back a couple of hundred, if > >you want to pay that for three cents worth of plastic blessed by Ralph > >Lauren.) > A lot of what you say is true but not all… all glass is not the > same. Not for window glass, not for eye glasses… and with eye > glasses, the grinding can be precision or much less than precision… > If you are buying from somebody new… regardless of how much you > paid… expensive don’t make for quality either… Have them checked > by your ophthalmologist… most of them will do it for free… and it > sure beats having headaches. > Dick >In general, eyeglass quality if far superior to what we used to get, >which generally came from little grinding shops in Brooklyn operated by >mostly Polish immigrants. >As I recall from my experience work on Bausch and Lomb, optical glass is >pretty generic; Tempered glass for safety reasons costs a little more, >as does tinting. So is optical plastic. Since the grinding is now >totally automated and computerized, there isn’t much room for error. In >NY, any optometrist will check your glasses against the prescription. >My point wasn’t about glasses, but hearing aids and the path of >improvement to be expected.  In fairly recent years, it has become legal >for drug stores to sell over-the-counter glasses, to various diopters, >useful for emergency reading glasses.  No good for those with >astigmatism, of course.  But for decades,  the optometrists’ lobby >prevented the sale of such glasses with weary warnings about ruining >ones eyes.  My B & L people confessed that the incidence of ruining was >too small to be measured. >I suspect we are very close to a generic hearing aid, virtually over the >counter. In fact, we’re pretty close already.  I knew a Texas Instrument >engineer who, we thought, always listened to a Walkman.  Turned out he >had a Walkman headset, all right, but his picket box held a nice little >mike. He said it cost him about six bucks in spare parts, and the kids >thought he was pretty cool looking.   (I was never REALLY sure he wasn’t >listening to the music rather than me, but if so, he faked it good.) >– >EAH >     Otium cum dignitate

Response:

I can’t believe that the little in the canal hearing aid that I recenty purchased cost more than the computer I am using.  Nor do I believe that it has the same degree of technology.  After a few (actually many) suggestions from my wife and golfing buddies that I do something about my hearing loss I got myself tested and set about to check out the price of the different hearing aids.  My search revealed that they are all about the same.  I could have saved money of course by buying one that fit on the outside of the ear, but my male ego and vanity required a less noticible device.  This has got to be a profitable business without a doubt, but what is the justification for such high prices? Lon

Response:

>I can’t believe that the little in the canal hearing aid that I recenty >purchased cost more than the computer I am using.  Nor do I believe that it >has the same degree of technology.  After a few (actually many) suggestions >from my wife and golfing buddies that I do something about my hearing loss I >got myself tested and set about to check out the price of the different >hearing aids.  My search revealed that they are all about the same.  I could >have saved money of course by buying one that fit on the outside of the ear, >but my male ego and vanity required a less noticible device.  This has got >to be a profitable business without a doubt, but what is the justification >for such high prices?

greed.:-} — "Le mauvais gout mene au crime" (Stendhal) to send me email, remove ’syzygy.’  from my address

Response:

> I can’t believe that the little in the canal hearing aid that I recenty > purchased cost more than the computer I am using.  Nor do I believe that it > has the same degree of technology.  After a few (actually many) suggestions > from my wife and golfing buddies that I do something about my hearing loss I > got myself tested and set about to check out the price of the different > hearing aids.  My search revealed that they are all about the same.  I could > have saved money of course by buying one that fit on the outside of the ear, > but my male ego and vanity required a less noticible device.  This has got > to be a profitable business without a doubt, but what is the justification > for such high prices? > Lon

COMMENT: Lon, I believe you just may have answered your own question: – - – but my male ego and vanity required a less noticeable device. – - – Don    ;-) Don Finch http://freenet.buffalo.edu/facts – -  Tonawanda, N.Y. & Manhattan Project                                        (World’s 1st Atomic Bombs) http://freenet.buffalo.edu/wnykwva –  Korean War Vets, WNY Chapter

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I can’t believe that the little in the canal hearing aid that I recenty > purchased cost more than the computer I am using.  Nor do I believe that it > has the same degree of technology.  After a few (actually many) suggestions > from my wife and golfing buddies that I do something about my hearing loss I > got myself tested and set about to check out the price of the different > hearing aids.  My search revealed that they are all about the same.  I could > have saved money of course by buying one that fit on the outside of the ear, > but my male ego and vanity required a less noticible device.  This has got > to be a profitable business without a doubt, but what is the justification > for such high prices? > Lon > COMMENT: > Lon, I believe you just may have answered your own question: > – - – but my male ego and vanity required a less noticeable device. – - – > Don    ;-) > Don Finch > http://freenet.buffalo.edu/facts – -  Tonawanda, N.Y. & Manhattan Project >                                        (World’s 1st Atomic Bombs) > http://freenet.buffalo.edu/wnykwva –  Korean War Vets, WNY Chapter

Great question, but the answer is simply that NO manufacturer will ever cut his price a penny, because they saw what happened to eye-glasses when a few states allowed low-price suppliers in.  Prices dropped by fifty percent. The Unions had a lot to do with this, setting up low-priced optometrists for their members, then letting in family members and then friends, etc.  When I first came to New york in the forties, you could not buy a pair of cheap classes anywhere.  The easiest prescription cost forty or fity bucks (and that was a LOT then), and it took a week. Soon after I got here I had to visit a Shell Oil rfefinery for a story, and they wanted me to have safety glasses, so they took my prescription and came back in a couple of hours with a duplicate pair of glasses, in hardened glass — for thirteen buck … their cost!  That’s when i suspected something was missing in my understanding of optics. Now there are cheapo shops all over town, where, if you’ll settle for a cheap frame you can at least get your vision corrected, and in about an hour.  (Of course, your vanity can set you back a couple of hundred, if you want to pay that for three cents worth of plastic blessed by Ralph Lauren.) I suspect the same thing will happen in hearing aids.  The technology is  trivial and the harrumphing that goes on about fitting you and turning to your own wave length, etc., is laughable.  One of these days some offshoot of Microsoft will offer a fifty dollar hearing aid that works — and then everyone will accuse Gates of stealing a market. Meanwhile, go with the visible aid — it has an advantage:  people know you have problems hearing, and they act appropriately.  And you would be astounded at how many don’t give a poop what you wear. — EAH      Otium cum dignitate

Response:

Filed under: Aids