Aids HIV FAQ

Medical journals complaining about the greed of pharmaceutical industry?

Question:

> >its not an unknown threat, the fact is drug companies actually -hide- >negative data and findings in order to speed approval. thats the issue >here. that is where negative side effects and things come from. they >want to speed that approval. > What I was getting at is I seriously doubt anyone knew what thalidomide > would do to a fetus when it was released.  In those days, it probably wasn’t > tested on pregnant animals or primates–just given to some non-pregnant > adults and hey, it works good.  

well no according to the book, (‘women of courage’) it was a pretty good book, they *did* do extensive human testing, and had medical evidence of problems in *humans*. that data *had* been accumulated, and was available for public knowlege, and the FDA fought to have that scientific research SUPPRESSED. -that is- what happened. the FDA fought to =suppress= that medical data in order to speed approval. there was extensive medical data clearly showing teratonogenic effects in fetuses long before all of this happened, which was COVERED UP by the FDA. thats the story. > Yeah, but this is the kind of stuff (great stuff, by the way) that never > gets out for mass public consumption.  Instead, the story goes:  see, the > big powerful FDA came through and saved us from thalidomide.  Therefore, the > FDA needs all the oppressive power it has today, and MORE.  Supplement gurus > Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw have fought the FDA for years just for the right > to print truthful data from peer-reviewed studies on bottles.  The FDA > thinks the First Amendment ends with them.

thats amerikka for ya. >ps what country do you live in?? > > >just curious. > The US. >anna > Anna reads bo-oks!  I won’t tell.  Promise.  ;-)

thank you! i could tell you, but then youd have to kill me…. oh.. wait… shit. anyway.. thanks ) anna > –John > I expected it to kill me.  But it looked into my eyes, > and I heard myself say, "can you help?"  And it said, > "can I not?" > "The Bellero Shield" > The Outer Limits (1963)

– blackbird singin in the dead of night take these broken eyes and learn to see all your life you were only waiting for this moment to be free ~

Response:

Well… how about a couple newer stories to "batter" the FDA with? Serzone. Fen-fen. Lilly heart valves. And let’s not forget blood clotting agents contaminated with the AIDS virus. Well, at least hemophilia is pretty much a disease of the past now. Most of its sufferers are dead and didn’t get a chance to pass on the gene for it (angry sarcasm intended…I lost a cousin to that).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->$$ anyway in my mind……. as i understand it in the US there is one >agency that ‘gets drugs through’ or not, i cant remember its name.. >last year called ‘women of courage’ one of the stories was during the >60’s when thalidomide was trying to come out. >apparently thalidomide was successfully speeded through approval in >europe, but not in america… beucase of this woman who headed the dept >at that time, she heard the stories and evidence about thalidomide and >wouldnt let it be approved as fast as the drug companies wanted…… >apparently she took a =huge= amount of heat for that, but stood ground >and that is why the thalidomide disaster was not as bad in america as it >could have been. but that was in the 60’s, and im sure that people with > That’s an interesting story.  In those days, medicine was still primitive > compared to today.  Think of how few medicines there were, and nowhere near > the ability to create new molecules.  I’m sure they just plain didn’t think > about effects on the fetus ("teratogenic" effects) and women weren’t > cautioned about smoking and drinking.  Thalidomide was the wake-up call. I > view it as a growth phase in our state of knowledge.  After all this time, > you’re not going to have that kind of unknown threat from a drug that comes > from a modern country, just because it’s outside the US.  After 40 years, > the defenders of the FDA still try to batter us with thalidomide.  Why do > they have to use such an old story I wonder?  Truth is that any large > bureaucracy with that much power will have to be greased to allow even > normal business to occur.  Such bureaucracy drives small businessmen and > companies insane and out of business, favoring the growth of giant > corporations (with their own bureaucracies and deep pockets) that the libs > so love to hate. > Balanced against testing time and expense is patent protection.  The moment > a new molecule is patented, the clock is running on that 17 years. Testing > can take 10 years.  Make it too long and you kill the goose–new drugs just > won’t come out.  The founders thought it important enough for inventors to > profit exclusively from their inventions that patent protection was included > in our Constitution.  Truth is that all possible effects of drugs just won’t > be known until they’re released to the general population (even with all the > testing).  Personally, I like to wait until something’s been out 2-3 years, > but that’s a luxury people don’t have who are going to die in 6 months. > Those deaths are hidden and something the FDA never talks about. >i remember how fast they took mda =off= the market when they found >people were having fun with it. > Yes, the drug war nazis at work.  We’re not having fun, so neither are you! > Too bad they turned out to be right, before the permanent damage to the > serotonin system was known.  I remember seeing GHB in a healthfood store in > the ’80s when bodybuilders used it to release growth hormone.  You never > heard about OD deaths when it was pure and legally available, at a > predictable dose.  Thanks, drug war! >i think they can do a lot closer to whatever they want these days. its >kinda scary actually. pretty much the company wants to sell it. i think >that is bottom line…… im not sure how much human desire really plays >a part.. i think they just whip up the desire to have a market for their > Lost in the leftist propaganda that  _depresses_  us all to tears (well, not > me anymore, heheh) is the fact there are people working in those companies > who genuinely want to help sick people with new medicines, not just make > money.  They have to be rewarded for their efforts–it’s the only system > that works. > Cheers. > –John > I had to lie to Nikita before the Alliance Mission. > What’s the problem?

Response:

> That’s an interesting story.  In those days, medicine was still primitive > compared to today.  Think of how few medicines there were, and nowhere near > the ability to create new molecules.  I’m sure they just plain didn’t think > about effects on the fetus ("teratogenic" effects) and women weren’t > cautioned about smoking and drinking.  Thalidomide was the wake-up call.

it was a large wakeup call, mostly to americans that they should not trust anything the govt tells them……. but this was not too long ago. however in the overall history of western medicine, we are all in diapers. the medical system is incredibly nascent. so no argument there.  I > view it as a growth phase in our state of knowledge.  After all this time, > you’re not going to have that kind of unknown threat from a drug that comes > from a modern country, just because it’s outside the US.  

its not an unknown threat, the fact is drug companies actually -hide- negative data and findings in order to speed approval. thats the issue here. that is where negative side effects and things come from. they want to speed that approval. After 40 years, > the defenders of the FDA still try to batter us with thalidomide.  Why do > they have to use such an old story I wonder?  Truth is that any large > bureaucracy with that much power will have to be greased to allow even > normal business to occur.  

well i dont think the fda should have much pride in the thalidomide story, since if the fda had had their way, the disaster would have been much worse. the story was an illustration of the fda trying to push thalidomide through for profit, and one woman doctor who told them she refused to approve it for health concerns. she was bucking their huge greased system and barely got away with it, saving huge numbers of women and babies horrible crap. the fda if they had gotten their way would now be blamed for a lot more deaths and problems than were actually caused. the fda is a big criminal in this, they just got off lucky becuase that one woman would not let them push thalidomide through like they wanted to. Such bureaucracy drives small businessmen and > companies insane and out of business, favoring the growth of giant > corporations (with their own bureaucracies and deep pockets) that the libs > so love to hate.

well. there is no doubt that big money controls american business. thats capitalism and the american way isnt it……. is it always better for the consumer, i dont know……. > Balanced against testing time and expense is patent protection.  The moment > a new molecule is patented, the clock is running on that 17 years.  Testing > can take 10 years.  Make it too long and you kill the goose–new drugs just > won’t come out.  The founders thought it important enough for inventors to > profit exclusively from their inventions that patent protection was included > in our Constitution.  Truth is that all possible effects of drugs just won’t > be known until they’re released to the general population (even with all the > testing).  Personally, I like to wait until something’s been out 2-3 years, > but that’s a luxury people don’t have who are going to die in 6 months. > Those deaths are hidden and something the FDA never talks about.

thats also true. but, just like computer programs, these meds are successively released to larger and larger numbers of people, carefully, so that side effects and other effects can be measured -before- they are released in large numbers. they do that for a reason. but, they  are still just as happy to put something on the market -before- its fully tested, or while hiding known negative info, just to start making money on it. that cannot be good for us the consumer. >i remember how fast they took mda =off= the market when they found >people were having fun with it. > Yes, the drug war nazis at work.  We’re not having fun, so neither are you! > Too bad they turned out to be right, before the permanent damage to the > serotonin system was known.  I remember seeing GHB in a healthfood store in > the ’80s when bodybuilders used it to release growth hormone.  You never > heard about OD deaths when it was pure and legally available, at a > predictable dose.  Thanks, drug war!

well. i loved mda. it was incredible for healing a persons mental space. it was a great drug. i wish i could use it now. thats my position on that (}} >i think they can do a lot closer to whatever they want these days. its >kinda scary actually. pretty much the company wants to sell it. i think >that is bottom line…… im not sure how much human desire really plays > Lost in the leftist propaganda that  _depresses_  us all to tears (well, not > me anymore, heheh) is the fact there are people working in those companies > who genuinely want to help sick people with new medicines, not just make > money.  They have to be rewarded for their efforts–it’s the only system > that works.

i just dont know. i have a medical family like i said, familiarity with ps what country do you live in?? > just curious. anna > Cheers. > –John > I had to lie to Nikita before the Alliance Mission. > What’s the problem?

– blackbird singin in the dead of night take these broken eyes and learn to see all your life you were only waiting for this moment to be free ~

Response:

> >it really isnt just the companies. there is quite a bit of corruption >within the fda as well, in terms of pushing drugs thru the approval >process too fast…… > I don’t think this is completely a corruption issue.  It is actually a > response to public pressure, as awareness grew in the ’80s and ’90s, thanks > to umm.. information technology and exposes of outrageous costs and time to > approve new drugs.  

The AIDS crisis drove much of this. > Once drug companies get past compliance issues, the FDA is basically in bed > with them.  It is the wet dream of FDA bureaucrats to retire to a cushy > consulting position in a pharm. company.  So, we see things like an FDA puke > being instrumental in getting a questionable new drug approved, then > retiring to consult for the same pharm. company that sells the drug.  Also > why the FDA is the #1 force keeping safe and effective foreign drugs (like > moclobemide) out of the US market.  Ain’t government grand?

$$ anyway in my mind……. as i understand it in the US there is one agency that ‘gets drugs through’ or not, i cant remember its name.. last year called ‘women of courage’ one of the stories was during the 60’s when thalidomide was trying to come out. apparently thalidomide was successfully speeded through approval in europe, but not in america… beucase of this woman who headed the dept at that time, she heard the stories and evidence about thalidomide and wouldnt let it be approved as fast as the drug companies wanted…… apparently she took a =huge= amount of heat for that, but stood ground and that is why the thalidomide disaster was not as bad in america as it could have been. but that was in the 60’s, and im sure that people with i remember how fast they took mda =off= the market when they found people were having fun with it. i think they can do a lot closer to whatever they want these days. its kinda scary actually. pretty much the company wants to sell it. i think that is bottom line…… im not sure how much human desire really plays anna > –John > I had to lie to Nikita before the Alliance Mission. > What’s the problem?

– blackbird singin in the dead of night take these broken eyes and learn to see all your life you were only waiting for this moment to be free ~

Response:

I’ve heard something like that. Has anybody got a link to that info.

Response:

John Le Carre wrote a (fictional) book this year about the corruption of large pharmaceutical companies, called The Constant Gardener.  After it was released, he found out more about the subject, and said that the book was nowhere near as bad as the real thing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’ve heard something like that. Has anybody > got a link to that info.

Response:

> John Le Carre wrote a (fictional) book this year about the corruption of > large pharmaceutical companies, called The Constant Gardener.  After it was > released, he found out more about the subject, and said that the book was > nowhere near as bad as the real thing.

it really isnt just the companies. there is quite a bit of corruption within the fda as well, in terms of pushing drugs thru the approval process too fast…… — blackbird singin in the dead of night take these broken eyes and learn to see all your life you were only waiting for this moment to be free ~

Response:

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