Reply to:Islam is disgusting…

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Appearatly you do not understand english too well, your paste from >>dictionary.com does not support your notion that my hated of Islam > is >>’racist’ – perhaps you need to re-read the definition, and look up > the word >>’race’ also. > We are not and we do not need to be a race for you to practice racism > against us. Just as the German racism against the Jews or the Slavs > (some > are Catholic, some are orthodox). >>Hatred of Islam is very different from ‘hatred of Arabs’ or ‘Hatred > of >>Orientals’ or eve ‘Hatred of Musims’ for that matter. As a > Christian, I >>hate sin, just as God hates sin – Islam falls into that category. > It’s a >>sinful religion founded by a very sinful man. > Islam is not a sin. Your socity is the one build on sin and by > sinners. > Islam is a mercy from God. It liberate humans from the most dangerous > thing that can enslave them which is money and power. Just look to how > you are in the states. You have few huge companies that controls > your life. You are slaves to them in the full sense of the word. > They control what you see on TV, what you dress, > how you will dress (fashion), they put guideliness for what is > socially acceptable, what is politically correct, who will win next > elections, where will you fight the next war. This is the real > slavery. In an Islamic society, the good of the whole society is > put first before the interest of one single company or a group of > compines. > The result is that on one hand you have control (by force usually) on > enoromous > resources, but on the other hand you have 50 Mn Americans who lack > health care because the companies does not allow that. Now, this is > real slavery. Can you be independent? >>Christians are to hate sin, but love the sinner, even as Jesus > loved us, >>even though we are sinners, and gave himself for us. > bs. You go around killing as happening in Iraq now. Today, 4 school > children > died by your mercanaries in Iraq. Here is an article that shows how > your > soliders are loving sinners in Iraq: > http://www.islamonline.net/english/In_Depth/Iraq_Aftermath/2004/04/ar… >>>Additionally it’s more than a ‘religion’ as we understand religion > in the >>>west. >You do not have religions in the west anymore, so you do not >understand >what Muslims are talking about. What you have is some modified >form of social organizations. The Churches (and not Christianity, God >forbids) >has been defeated in the west because of its abuse of power in the >medival ages. >If you go to Church to dance and sing, then this is not religion, ok? >You can call it Carnvalism better. >>I think you misunderstand. In the west, religion is an individual > belief >>system, not a set of civil laws like you have in Islam. > Christianity does >>not prescrive any set of civil laws or punishments. Your attempt to >>catagorize all churches as being the same shows your lack of > knowledge. > I see, then you are a Protestant. I think you need to read about > history of > Christanity in Europe, specifically Catholicsm. saying that > Christianity does > not have laws is a new thing and part of the culture of being > politically correct. > I know some Catholics who would disagree strongly with you. >>Non-Muslims had to pay a special tax, under Islamic law. > True. Muslims did not because they were obliged to do military > service. > Christians and Jews did not because they paid this tax. Which is more > favorite > in your opinion, joining an army and getting killed or paying extra > taxes (which was 1% by the way)? >>glad to hear that, the way you were talking, i thought maybe you’d > be upset >>that the hadith says Mohammed was a white man. > It does not matter and I do not care. >>You misunderstand Jewish law. Judiasm accepts converts, and Israel > accepts >>converts to Judiasm as Jews. It also recognises one to be a Jew if > thier >>mother was a Jew AND they have not converted to another religion. > Even if a >>person is a child of a Jewish mother, and converts to another > religion, >>they are no longer considered Jewish. > Here is an article that will show you that the picture is not clean > and cut as you think: > http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Judaism/whojew1.html > If you search on the net you will find more.. >>Do you think the back Etheopian Jewish immigrants to Israel that > they are >>the same race as the white Polish Jewish Immigrants? > Well, infact, Orthodoc Israelis do believe that they are all related > and it is one race. I know it does not make sense at all but that is > what > they believe. Liberal Israelis typically downplay this because they > know it is stupid (the same way they downplay that they used to teach > their children in the sixties that Palestinians are originally Greek > who moved there 1000 years after their diaspora!) >This actually support my point. All the earliest pictures of Jesus >were >white and soon it became a problem because every other ethnic group >wanted to model Jesus to look like them, so now there is a black Jesus >and a chinses Jesus and a latin Jesus. >But if you read early history of European art, there are tons of >mentions >of the attempts to portray him as white. If you visit Italian >churches, they >are full of the white tall blue/green eyed figure. This is not a >coincidence. >>You just answered the question yourself. If it is no surprise that > each >>race has depicted Jesus to look like them, then why is it strange > that >>Italians did too? > My point is that they were the first to be interested in his skin > color > as they tried to model him as how they look and this was so > fundamental > to how they percieved themselves as Christians. >>I have no problem with ‘race’. > That’s just you. >>Before 9-11 the USA was bombing the ‘white Christians’ in Serbia in > defense >>of the ‘brown skinned Muslims’ in Kosovo. > bs. Hundres of thousands of Muslims were literally slaughtered in > Bosina > and no one moved a hair. > The US intervend in Kosovo because the secular pro-western rule in > Turkey was threatned by the war because the Islamists were using > it and because the Saudias were pressuring with oil to do something. > The rest of Europe knew what was happeing in Bosina and what was > happening in Kosovo and if it was not for Muslims countries pressure > no one would have done anything. There is a very interesting > book which I have tried to find its name but couldn’t now written by a > European diplomat who describes how in the case of Bosnia the British > (and the Americans) knew what was happening but turned an eye and > waited > for Mislovish to finish the job. Let me also remind you that the > reason > all this happened to Muslims in Bosnia because there was a resolution > from UN to ban weapons sales to Bosnia and Serbia which is absloutly > unfair because Serbia had weapons factories. That resolution > sponsored by US furnished the way for the massacres later. > So, the Kosovo strikes were nothing but a political stunt. >>Before 9-11, When had the USA beeing ‘killing you’? > Ok, the list is huge, but let us consider one number: > 500,000 childen in Iraq because of the sancations that was > imposed to get back weapons you originally gave it > the moronic regime overther to use against Iran. > Do you sleep well at night with that number? >>If you look at the nations the USA defeated in WWII, Germany and > Japan, >>they are free, democratic societies. We did not steal anything from > them. >>We spent billions reconstructing them. > Not entirely accurate. You got thousands of German scientists > who were brought to America and built your country in the last 50 > years. > For example, your space program wouldn’t have reached anywhere without > German scientist. The same for the nuclear bomb and ballistic > missiles. > So, this is even worse than stealing natural resources. >>the United Nations created the nation of Israel, not the US. It was > voted >>on in the general assembly. Why blame the US for what the UN does? > Come on. This is getting ridiclous. >>Futhermore, look at all the islamic states! Mulsims are demanding a >>seperate state in Phillipines > Muslims are demanding to preserve their culture. FYI, Phillipines > is a new name given by one of the Habsburg maniacs in Spain to > those islands. Muslims lived there and had their identity > long before the Phillipines as a country existed. >>Russia, > Even your country acknowledges that Russia take over of Chechnia is > spio >>Kashmir, > Alot what Muslims are asking for is to have a referendum which > country to join, is that democracy? >>Thailand, > Muslims had a country that was taken over by Thais. It used to be > called Arkan. If Thais were treating Muslims as citizens, situation > wouldn’t have reach this bad. >>China > Muslims there are ethnically chinese but do not like chinese goverment > way of treating them. Nothing new, tibet, northern Mongolia is the > same. > The Han ethnic group does not like anyone else. >>these areas the Muslims have driven hundreds of thousands of people > from thier homes. >>Over 90,000 displaced native Phillipinos as we speak because of > teh Muslim uprising. > bs. the philipine govenment is trying to change the demographic > situation > on the ground. Do you know that Muslims are not allowed to have > Muslims names over there? > and that some are forced to convert? have you seen this on

Response:

>> Appearatly you do not understand english too well, your paste from > dictionary.com does not support your notion that my hated of Islam is > ‘racist’ – perhaps you need to re-read the definition, and look up the word > ‘race’ also.

We are not and we do not need to be a race for you to practice racism against us. Just as the German racism against the Jews or the Slavs (some are Catholic, some are orthodox). > Hatred of Islam is very different from ‘hatred of Arabs’ or ‘Hatred of > Orientals’ or eve ‘Hatred of Musims’ for that matter. As a Christian, I > hate sin, just as God hates sin – Islam falls into that category. It’s a > sinful religion founded by a very sinful man.

Islam is not a sin. Your socity is the one build on sin and by sinners. Islam is a mercy from God. It liberate humans from the most dangerous thing that can enslave them which is money and power. Just look to how you are in the states. You have few huge companies that controls your life. You are slaves to them in the full sense of the word. They control what you see on TV, what you dress, how you will dress (fashion), they put guideliness for what is socially acceptable, what is politically correct, who will win next elections, where will you fight the next war. This is the real slavery. In an Islamic society, the good of the whole society is put first before the interest of one single company or a group of compines. The result is that on one hand you have control (by force usually) on enoromous resources, but on the other hand you have 50 Mn Americans who lack health care because the companies does not allow that. Now, this is real slavery. Can you be independent? > Christians are to hate sin, but love the sinner, even as Jesus loved us, > even though we are sinners, and gave himself for us.

bs. You go around killing as happening in Iraq now. Today, 4 school children died by your mercanaries in Iraq. Here is an article that shows how your soliders are loving sinners in Iraq: http://www.islamonline.net/english/In_Depth/Iraq_Aftermath/2004/04/ar… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Additionally it’s more than a ‘religion’ as we understand religion in the >> west. > You do not have religions in the west anymore, so you do not > understand > what Muslims are talking about. What you have is some modified > form of social organizations. The Churches (and not Christianity, God > forbids) > has been defeated in the west because of its abuse of power in the > medival ages. > If you go to Church to dance and sing, then this is not religion, ok? > You can call it Carnvalism better. > I think you misunderstand. In the west, religion is an individual belief > system, not a set of civil laws like you have in Islam. Christianity does > not prescrive any set of civil laws or punishments. Your attempt to > catagorize all churches as being the same shows your lack of

knowledge. I see, then you are a Protestant. I think you need to read about history of Christanity in Europe, specifically Catholicsm. saying that Christianity does not have laws is a new thing and part of the culture of being politically correct. I know some Catholics who would disagree strongly with you. > Non-Muslims had to pay a special tax, under Islamic law.

True. Muslims did not because they were obliged to do military service. Christians and Jews did not because they paid this tax. Which is more favorite in your opinion, joining an army and getting killed or paying extra taxes (which was 1% by the way)? > glad to hear that, the way you were talking, i thought maybe you’d be upset > that the hadith says Mohammed was a white man.

It does not matter and I do not care. > You misunderstand Jewish law. Judiasm accepts converts, and Israel accepts > converts to Judiasm as Jews. It also recognises one to be a Jew if thier > mother was a Jew AND they have not converted to another religion. Even if a > person is a child of a Jewish mother, and converts to another religion, > they are no longer considered Jewish.

Here is an article that will show you that the picture is not clean and cut as you think: http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Judaism/whojew1.html If you search on the net you will find more.. > Do you think the back Etheopian Jewish immigrants to Israel that they are > the same race as the white Polish Jewish Immigrants?

Well, infact, Orthodoc Israelis do believe that they are all related and it is one race. I know it does not make sense at all but that is what they believe. Liberal Israelis typically downplay this because they know it is stupid (the same way they downplay that they used to teach their children in the sixties that Palestinians are originally Greek who moved there 1000 years after their diaspora!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This actually support my point. All the earliest pictures of Jesus > were > white and soon it became a problem because every other ethnic group > wanted to model Jesus to look like them, so now there is a black Jesus > and a chinses Jesus and a latin Jesus. > But if you read early history of European art, there are tons of > mentions > of the attempts to portray him as white. If you visit Italian > churches, they > are full of the white tall blue/green eyed figure. This is not a > coincidence. > You just answered the question yourself. If it is no surprise that each > race has depicted Jesus to look like them, then why is it strange that > Italians did too?

My point is that they were the first to be interested in his skin color as they tried to model him as how they look and this was so fundamental to how they percieved themselves as Christians. > I have no problem with ‘race’.

That’s just you. > Before 9-11 the USA was bombing the ‘white Christians’ in Serbia in defense > of the ‘brown skinned Muslims’ in Kosovo.

bs. Hundres of thousands of Muslims were literally slaughtered in Bosina and no one moved a hair. The US intervend in Kosovo because the secular pro-western rule in Turkey was threatned by the war because the Islamists were using it and because the Saudias were pressuring with oil to do something. The rest of Europe knew what was happeing in Bosina and what was happening in Kosovo and if it was not for Muslims countries pressure no one would have done anything. There is a very interesting book which I have tried to find its name but couldn’t now written by a European diplomat who describes how in the case of Bosnia the British (and the Americans) knew what was happening but turned an eye and waited for Mislovish to finish the job. Let me also remind you that the reason all this happened to Muslims in Bosnia because there was a resolution from UN to ban weapons sales to Bosnia and Serbia which is absloutly unfair because Serbia had weapons factories. That resolution sponsored by US furnished the way for the massacres later. So, the Kosovo strikes were nothing but a political stunt. > Before 9-11, When had the USA beeing ‘killing you’?

Ok, the list is huge, but let us consider one number: 500,000 childen in Iraq because of the sancations that was imposed to get back weapons you originally gave it the moronic regime overther to use against Iran. Do you sleep well at night with that number? > If you look at the nations the USA defeated in WWII, Germany and Japan, > they are free, democratic societies. We did not steal anything from them. > We spent billions reconstructing them.

Not entirely accurate. You got thousands of German scientists who were brought to America and built your country in the last 50 years. For example, your space program wouldn’t have reached anywhere without German scientist. The same for the nuclear bomb and ballistic missiles. So, this is even worse than stealing natural resources. > the United Nations created the nation of Israel, not the US. It was voted > on in the general assembly. Why blame the US for what the UN does?

Come on. This is getting ridiclous. > Futhermore, look at all the islamic states! Mulsims are demanding a > seperate state in Phillipines

Muslims are demanding to preserve their culture. FYI, Phillipines is a new name given by one of the Habsburg maniacs in Spain to those islands. Muslims lived there and had their identity long before the Phillipines as a country existed. > Russia,

Even your country acknowledges that Russia take over of Chechnia is spio > Kashmir,

Alot what Muslims are asking for is to have a referendum which country to join, is that democracy? > Thailand,

Muslims had a country that was taken over by Thais. It used to be called Arkan. If Thais were treating Muslims as citizens, situation wouldn’t have reach this bad. > China

Muslims there are ethnically chinese but do not like chinese goverment way of treating them. Nothing new, tibet, northern Mongolia is the same. The Han ethnic group does not like anyone else. > these areas the Muslims have driven hundreds of thousands of people from thier homes. > Over 90,000 displaced native Phillipinos as we speak because of

teh Muslim uprising. bs. the philipine govenment is trying to change the demographic situation on the ground. Do you know that Muslims are not allowed to have Muslims names over there? and that some are forced to convert? have you seen this on your controlled TV? > Why should the Jews not be allowed to have ONE SINGLE Jewish > state in the homland they were driven away from?

We are not anti Jews. The Jews lived between us for thousands of years. We are anti racism and what the Israelis are doing to Palestinians is simply ugly racism and discrimination. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> What is happening now to Iraqi oil? You really need to get a clue. The US >> is pleged to spend nearly 100 billion dollars for Iraqi reconstruction, and >> its not a ‘loan’ – its purely at 100% US taxpayer expense. > This is another prove that you are being brain washed by your > controlled media. > Iraqi oil is worth by today’s market price 410 Billion.

Response:

> You are trying to evaluate Islam based on your historial exprience > with Christanity which is wrong and even stupid (unsurprising given > what you are). Islam (at least Sunni Islam)….. > My historical experience! Ok, I will go along with you and agree that > it is possible that my historical experience is tainted with > stupidity. I told you before that I am not knowing of alot of things > that are or were. I am assuming, please forgive me in my assumptions, > that the history books that I base my wrongful info on and there-by > reach my stupid conclusions are tainted?

I did not mean my/your historical exprience. I meant the collective historical exprience of each nation. The believe that there exists unilinear history is dump. Meaning, if abuse of Women happens in some place, and there is a movement to do justice to women, and that is called **women rights movement**, then it is not sufficient to say that all women will face the same problems everywhere and the **women rights movement** actions/polices can be used/applied irrespective of time and place. In fact, there might be socities that do not have negative practices (assuming we agree on what is negative). It might be that the west was primitive in a way that other socities might have managed to skip. Other socities might have negative practices but not the same ones. In other words, what is happening/happpened in the west will not neccesarily be repeated somewhere else and if it does, may be not in the same exact way. One of the stupid assumptions that is due to western arrogance (and racism again) is that you assume that the world is a mirror of yourself. For example, in Aphganistan, because of the rule of Taliban, you had women rights movements crying for what is happening there and blaming Islam for it. Why? because in medieval Europe (where most of the abuse to women started), the Church had direct responsbility because it percieved women as responsible for many sins starting from getting kicked from heaven to adultery.. In Islam, there is n’t such a position. In fact, according to the Quran: – women have the right to own property, – Women have the right to employ men (actually the prophet was working for a woman), – Women have the right to divorce husband (even for a simple reason as not being able to have good sex with him), – Women have the right to participate even in war. – Women have the right to object to any marriage within the family if they think it is not appropriate. The only thing that Islam demands from women is to dress modestly but it does also from men in a less strict way. What is happening in Muslims societies in terms of women exprience is entirely different because it depends on level of education and wealth in each area. In other words, it is the social factors that come into play and result in negative practices of women. For example, in middle eastern cities, you find women who live in families in crowded poor neighbourhoods are more exposed to violence than those living in the rural areas where women go around freely without any form of abuse. In fact, it is a known fact that women in agrictural areas have more power inside their houses than their husbands who are typically more occupied with the land.. Islam should not be blamed if a Muslim is abusing women in the name of the Quran. So, if someone wants to fix the situation, you have to adjust the social situation (unlike Christanity, where you had to adjust the religion and isolate the Church). Primitive westerns (and there are alot of them) keep baching the religion, some have covert agendas, others out of ignorance and arrogance. > Anyhow, please explain to me how Sunni Islam differs from the other > forms of Islam?

1. There is no theocracy. No Pope. No intermediatry between Muslim and God. No organized hirrachial religious structure that monopolizes the interpertation of the Quran or controls what they can/cannot do. 2. A fatwa in Islam means religious opinion and not religious decree. So, it is not enforcable. If a Muslim does not like a fatwa from a Scholar, he/she does not have to follow it. To put it in your primitive way of thinking, Muslim can go shopping for fatwas (but unlike you, Muslims are not allowed to pay the scholar to give them a tailored one) 3. What is not mentioned in the text is allowed. So, for example, if we were living in medieval Europe, and somone invented the Computer the Church had to say wether it is good or bad. Muslims do not have to even think wether it is good or bad. Only if later something that looks bad, they have to consult a scholar, again for a Fatwa not a decree. > what form Capitalism would take in a Sunni > Islamic Utopia? Do not assume I am trying to restrict your thinking in > my use of the word Capatalisim, you may use any word you like better > to describe the Economic freedom that entails freedom of action and > freedom of expression; Freedom of manifested thought.

FYI, Capitalism and trade has always been practiced everywhere and by everyone from the start of recorded history. The Chinese did it, the Indians did it, your ancestors in the caves of Europe did it and the Muslim and Arabs did it. What is important is if there are any restrictions against Capitalism in Islam. Well, there is one which is the good of the Soceity (which you do not believe in America but exists in Europe). But, as far as the right to ownership and protection of ownership, Islam protects it. More importantly, unlike Christainity, the rich are not condmened for their richness. In Islam, it is said that the best Muslim is the rich and strong believer (and not the poor and miserable as in Christainity). > Why is there not, in the Middle East atleast, one form > of an Islamic democracy?

Let us imagine the following scenario: Saudia Arabia is turned to a democracy, educated Saudis reach power and they decided to pursue their own economic interest. The first thing they are going to do is to stop selling crude oil and put plans to encourage local investment, so they won’t export oil but oil-byproducts: plastic, gas, … The whole western economy will be devasted because it is based on a pyramidal assumption that natural resources is cheap and abundant. So, it is in your own interest to have these traitor/rulers/dictators ruling. You can apply the same thing to every other middle eastern country. Recall that when Iran had elections in the 1960s, your CIA planned and excuted a cue aginst the elected government because it was going to adopt a more national policy in oil production (this event is documented by western historians and you can search in amazon for books about it) In other words, the reason we do not have democracy or any form of discent government is because of you. > how does Islam constitute a race? Please explain this to me.

We are not and we do not need to be a race to practice racism against us. Just as the German racism against the Jews or Slavs (some are Catholic, some are orthodox). >> What type of shows do you watch? > If you mean Jerry Springer, we are not as low. > But we have shows that has Islamists and Secularists > and Communists and Socialists and Nationalists debating > issues. When did you last see an Islamist on CNN? > Of course, never, because you are supposed to be the supereme > race and do not need to listen to those filthy shit! > I saw another Arabic show based in Syria depicting Jews sacrificing a > Christian boy for his Blood to make Magic Mattza crackers; this was

shocking, FYI, this was a European superstition that was often practiced against Jews. Also, FYI, the one who accused the Jews of doing that was the Catholic Priest whose aid (a Muslim) had disappeared after enterring a Jewish suburb in Damasucs. and FYI again, the Ottman Caliph then issued a decree saying that it is un-Islamic to accuse Jews of doing that and that was in the 1800s when your ancestors were about ready for the Holocust and had all kinds of racist theories floating around. So, you should credit the fact that the Islamic state then opposed it. > It also was saying how the palistian suicide was a much better > role-model for young children than say Tom Cruise or some other

actor. Of course, they are! They are defending their country against aggression by your clients in Israel. They are the most courageous people on the face of the Earth today. They have nothing to defend themselves with, they are being slaughtered day and night and the whole world seeing them and doing nothing. They are true freedom fighters and are not just acting like Tom Cruise or Mel Gibson. Everytime a country proposes in the UN to send peace keepers and monitor the situation, your filthy country uses the Veto in the Security Council to allow Israelis to kill more of them. > While the shows in America and else where in the West and in the Far > East are no better for promoting brutality…..AT LEAST IT IS FICTION > AND NOT MEANT TO BE PRACTICED ON OTHER HUMAN BEINGS IN REALITY.

Apologitic! > – Pictures of Iraq musemums being looted while your soliders > stood doing nothing. Talking about civilization… > What people did the looting? Americans?

FYI, in an interview with the Iraqi museum head, he said that even though Iraqis did that, he does not think they are behind it because they did not steal the replicas, only the originals and only Pros know the difference. FYI, immediatly after that, a reporter from FoxNews was caught crossing at the Jordanian border with dozens of stuff stolen from the meseum and the news was burried in American media (as usual). FYI, the only country that did not sign the UNISCO agreement for protection of cultural heritage is your filthy one. So, you are the only legal market in the world for such antiquaties. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> – Pictures of Palestine before 1948: the banks, the

Response:

>>> FYI Islam is not a ‘race’, so hatrid of Islam is not ‘racist’. > from dictionary.com, racism is > "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or > ability > and that a particular race is superior to others." > There are two parts to the definition, the second part applies to you. > The others could be more than one race. So, what you are doing is > racism.

Appearatly you do not understand english too well, your paste from dictionary.com does not support your notion that my hated of Islam is ‘racist’ – perhaps you need to re-read the definition, and look up the word ‘race’ also. Hatred of Islam is very different from ‘hatred of Arabs’ or ‘Hatred of Orientals’ or eve ‘Hatred of Musims’ for that matter. As a Christian, I hate sin, just as God hates sin – Islam falls into that category. It’s a sinful religion founded by a very sinful man. Christians are to hate sin, but love the sinner, even as Jesus loved us, even though we are sinners, and gave himself for us. >> The atrocities committed by Mohammed in the name of his ‘Allah’ are >> well documented in the many volumes of Islamic history as written > by >> Muslims (Hadiths). > bs. I challenge you to find any translation of a book written by > Muslims that does that. You are referring to works of orientalists > (Europeans) who hated Islam because it challenges them in the core > of their beliefs.

OK, here is the database I use for the Hadith: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html SUNAN ABU-DAWUD Volume 14 (Jihad), Number 2755: Narrated Nu’aym ibn Mas’ud: I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) say when he read the letter of Musaylimah: What do you believe yourselves? They said: We believe as he believes. He said: I swear by Allah that were it not that messengers are not killed, I would cut off your heads. SUNAN ABU-DAWUD, Volume 14 (Jihad), Number 2756: Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas’ud: I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: Were it not that you were not a messenger, I would behead you. But today you are not a messenger. He then ordered Qarazah ibn Ka’b (to kill him). He beheaded him in the market. Anyone who wants to see Ibn an-Nawwahah slain in the market (he may see him). SUNAN ABU-DAWUD Volume 38 (Prescribed Punishments), Number 4442: Narrated Al-Bara’ ibn Azib: I met my uncle who was carrying a standard. I asked him: Where are you going? He said: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) has sent me to a man who has married his father’s wife. He has ordered me to cut off his head and take his property. SAHIH BUKHARI 4:260 Narrated Ikrima: Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn ‘Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ " SAHIH BUKHARI 9:271 Narrated Abu Musa: A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu’adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu’adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu’adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle SAHIH MUSLIM 16:4154 ‘Abdullah (b. Mas’ud) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up and said: By Him besides Whom there is no god but He, the blood of a Muslim who bears the testimony that there is no god but Allah, and I am His Messenger, may be lawfully shed only in case of three persons: the one who abandons Islam SAHIH MUSLIM Book 019, Number 4364: It has been narrated on the authority of Ibn Umar that the Jews of Banu Nadir and Banu Quraizi fought against the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who expelled Banu Nadir, and allowed Quraiza to stay on, and granted favour to them until they too fought against him Then he killed their men, and distributed their women, children and properties among the Muslims, except that some of them had joined the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who granted them security. They embraced Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) turned out all the Jews of Medlina. Banu Qainuqa’ (the tribe of ‘Abdullah b. Salim) and the Jews of Banu Haritha and every other Jew who was in Medina. SAHIH MUSLIM Book 019, Number 4370: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) asked: Where? He poirftad to Banu Quraiza. So the Messenger of Allah (may peace he upon him) fought against them. They surrendered at the command of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), but he referred the decision about them to Sa’d who said: I decide about them that those of them who can fight be killed, their women and children taken prisoners and their properties distributed (among the Muslims). SAHIH MUSLIM 019:4345: …we attacked from all sides… I saw a group of persons that consisted of women and children… Among them was a woman from Banu Fazara. With her was her daughter who was one of the prettiest girls in Arabia. I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said: Give me that girl… SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 4, Book 53, Number 364: "Allah’s Apostle has sent us here and ordered us to stay here, so you too, stay with us." We stayed with him till we all left (Ethiopia) and met the Prophet at the time when he had conquered Khaibar. He gave us a share from its booty (or gave us from its booty). SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 5, Book 59, Number 375: So, when we faced the enemy, they took to their heel till I saw their women running towards the mountain, lifting up their clothes from their legs, revealing their leg-bangles. The Muslims started saying, "The booty, the booty!" Sunan Abu Dawud Book 14, Number 2495: Narrated Sahl ibn al-Hanzaliyyah: On the day of Hunayn we travelled with the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and we journeyed for a long time until the evening came. I attended the prayer along with the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). A horseman came and said: Apostle of Allah, I went before you and climbed a certain mountain where saw Hawazin all together with their women, cattle, and sheep, having gathered at Hunayn. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) smiled and said: That will be the booty of the Muslims tomorrow if Allah wills. SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 4, Book 53, Number 344: Narrated ‘Ali: Fatima complained of what she suffered from the hand mill and from grinding, when she got the news that some slave girls of the booty had been brought to Allah’s Apostle. SAHIH MUSLIM Book 037, Number 6676: Anas reported that a person was charged with fornication with the slavegirl of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him). Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to ‘Ali: Go and strike his neck. ‘Ali came to him and he found him in a well making his body cool. ‘Ali said to him: Come out, and as he took hold of his hand and brought him out, he found that his sexual organ had been cut. Hadrat ‘Ali refrained from striking his neck. He came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah’s Messenger, he has not even the sexual organ with him. SAHIH BUKHARI Volume 7, Book 62, Number 132: Narrated ‘Abdullah bin Zam’a: The Prophet said, "None of you should flog his wife as he flogs a slave and then have sexual intercourse with her in the last part of the day." >> Any attempt to put Jesus, as described in the Bible, into the same >> category as that lecherous, bloodthirsty murder, Mohammed, is > simply >> character assination. > It is my duty, as a Muslim, to protect Jesus (may peace be upon him) > from people like you who deviate his message and say that people > should > worship him! instead of God (BTW, Allah is just the Arabic name of > God ya idiots out there).

Sorry, the New Testament teaches that Jesus was worshiped often in many places He went, even from his birth. Jesus never corrected anyone who worshiped Him. The Apostles and Angels were always quick to say ‘no, do not worship us’ – but Jesus never said that. >> Furthermore, Christians do not base thier religion on the Old > Testament, so >> references to Jewish practices before the comming of Jesus have > little >> bearing on Christianity. > Interesting, so, you are acknowledging that Jews have a problem with > their > text. That’s new.

Did I say that? I don’t see where I said that! FYI The Jewish texts promised that a day would come when God would establish a new covenant, when the old covenant was fulfilled, He would make a new one. Christians believe that Jesus brought that new covenant. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Additionally it’s more than a ‘religion’ as we understand religion > in the >> west. > You do not have religions in the west anymore, so you do not > understand > what Muslims are talking about. What you have is some modified > form of social organizations. The Churches (and not Christianity, God > forbids) > has been defeated in the west because of its abuse of power in the > medival ages. > If you go to Church to dance and sing, then this is not religion, ok? > You can call it Carnvalism better.

I think you misunderstand. In the west, religion is an individual belief system, not a set of civil laws like you have in Islam. Christianity does not prescrive any set of civil laws or punishments. Your attempt to catagorize all churches as being the same shows your lack of knowledge. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Islam includes a set of civil laws with prescribed punishments for > everyone, >> including non-Muslims. ie it is a belief system that by its

Response:

> >> as Islam rejects progress and has rejected progress since the 14th > century. > You are trying to evaluate Islam based on your historial exprience > with Christanity which is wrong and even stupid (unsurprising given > what you are). Islam (at least Sunni Islam) does not propose a > theocratic state that would control people’s thought and actions > (unlike Christianity and the Church in the medieval ages in Europe) > There is nothing in Islam that prevents people from being creative > and think independtly. Muslim countries are backward today because > of the dictators appointed/helped by your filthy racist countries.

And we could all witness how wonderful Afghanistan became under a purely islamic regime,that of the taliban….Comical to see a muslim dare use the word "racist" – muslims are the worst racists in the world,and islam is for religion what nazism is for politics.

Response:

My historical experience! Ok, I will go along with you and agree that it is possible that my historical experience is tainted with stupidity. I told you before that I am not knowing of alot of things that are or were. I am assuming, please forgive me in my assumptions, that the history books that I base my wrongful info on and there-by reach my stupid conclusions are tainted? This is assuming plenty, but I will go along with it and agree again that I do not have any correct sources from which I read. Although I would like a little credit on your part; I have read translations of religeous text on Islam, and I also have done a fare amount of travel. I have also studied with an Islamic proffesor in the far East; proofing his English translations of an Iranian Proffesor. Anyhow, please explain to me how Sunni Islam differs from the other forms of Islam? Why is there not, in the Middle East atleast, one form of an Islamic democracy? And, please tell me or explain to my not knowing racist self, what form Capitalism would take in a Sunni Islamic Utopia? Do not assume I am trying to restrict your thinking in my use of the word Capatalisim, you may use any word you like better to describe the Economic freedom that entails freedom of action and freedom of expression; Freedom of manifested thought. >> When did Islam become a RACE??? > from dictionary.com, racism is > "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or > ability and that a particular race is superior to others."……

I do not know what to say to your accusations, except, sorry. Still, how does Islam constitute a race? Please explain this to me. >> What is taught to the people of Arab countries? > What is not taught to the Arabs is the dehumanization > of every other race. What is not taught is to judge > someone by the color of his eyes or skin you white ant.

Well this was not exactly what I was getting at, but O.K. But, if what you say is NOT taught is the dehumanization of every other race by Arabs, then I have a question for you: I consider the definition of De-Humanizing to be the creation in the mind of humans by humans that some other humans are (all or some), in some qualification, lacking of the full-ness of what it is to be Human. This is my own definition, if it is not correct on all levels it covers some of what de-humanization is. Then, I want to ask this of you: When you call a certain Human something other than Human, such as a Pig or something else; does this not constitute De-Humanization on one level? >> What type of shows do you watch? > If you mean Jerry Springer, we are not as low. > But we have shows that has Islamists and Secularists > and Communists and Socialists and Nationalists debating > issues. When did you last see an Islamist on CNN? > Of course, never, because you are supposed to be the supereme > race and do not need to listen to those filthy shit!

These issues that are debated, I have seen some of them. I saw an egyptian Proffessor having a disscusion on the Nobility of Suicide. I saw another Arabic show based in Syria depicting Jews sacrificing a Christian boy for his Blood to make Magic Mattza crackers; this was shocking, but also hysterical. I saw a show that strikes me as similar to the American show, Montel, debating how it is good to rasise young children on gore and bloodshed. This show was based out of Suadi Arabia. It also was saying how the palistian suicide was a much better role-model for young children than say Tom Cruise or some other actor. I saw what Palastinians are watching for MTV. They watch music videos on murdering Jews and killing Jews and other craziness such as this. In school the Palistinians are raising thier children to be mass murders; I saw this. In the Mousqes ALL OVER the Middle East, it is being preached that certain RACES and Cultures are nothing but animals and less-than-HUMAN! I saw all this and more, and I am mad at my self for not being able to better describe with better words, to make clearer the HORROR, that I have just EXPERIENCED that it is ARABS watch on T.V. DAY and NIGHT!!!! While the shows in America and else where in the West and in the Far East are no better for promoting brutality…..AT LEAST IT IS FICTION AND NOT MEANT TO BE PRACTICED ON OTHER HUMAN BEINGS IN REALITY. >> what do the Sattelites beam into the houses of Arab homes? > – Pictures of Palestinian children being killed and dead after > throwning stones at your clients in Israel in an > anti-occupation demonstration. Talking about freedom…

Ok, if you saw what the Palistians have been teaching these children, if you saw what regard these children had for LIFE! If me and you were the Israels; I would bet any amount of ‘Allah be praised’ or Hail Mary’s’ you would shoot these fucked up little animals to! > – Pictures of Iraq musemums being looted while your soliders > stood doing nothing. Talking about civilization…

What people did the looting? Americans? > – Pictures of Palestine before 1948: the banks, the cities, > the streets, the schools, Palestinain living in all of those. > Everything that was stolen. Talking about rule of law…

I’ll be honest, I am not to knowing how well people of Israel have developed the place before the Jews started arriving there, but according to my tainted History, it was ALL desert and dilapidation before the Jews got there to create the banks, streets (real paved streets), the cities, commerce/free trade,…I again will say I don’t know as much about the state of things for the Jordanians and eygptians before Jews arrived. > – Pictures of American movies that dehumanize Muslims and > Arabs being angry animals. Talking about equality…

Ok, I have not seen these movies; unless, you mean Arab Terrorist, in which case I hope you feel that this fringe is just that, and in no way represents the Arab-idity and Arab-istic world. Any culture that pokes fun or displays people that believe in killing INNOCENTS: BABIES, TWEENS, TEENS, WOMEN, MEN, the OLD, and any other group of INNOCENT bystanders, well, I hope you feel the same. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> You mean Dimmis, or dhimmis? Which means people other than Muslim. >> Yeah, we dhimmis be good masta, we be mind-in our place real well >> masta. > Boring and ignorant. FYI, when Muslim laws were enforced (up till > 300 years ago in most Muslim countries) Christians had their own > courts. This existed in Egypt, Syria,Lebanon and Jews had their > own courts in Morroco. These are the countries that had significant > numbers of them. It was canceled by the Ottmans later on > as they tried to introduce one law for all. This is a form of civil > rule your countries did not reach to yet which is to allow each > minority and/or religious group to rule itself within one country.

Acctually, the Jews were given the freedom to run thier own courts in Europe at any time. Only when Napolean entered the Stage of history did the Jews lose this right. The Jews could not try Capital offences such as murder, but not in All cases. I think this is true, but, my moderate Muslim buddy, I have said above and I say again: When it comes to History, I am stupid and you are the Masta, so please tell me if this is correct or not. >> what does Peace mean to you? > Among what it means, that humans should not kill each other for > money you little white ant (unlike your mercenary forces in Iraq > who went to steal the oil and get killed for that).

Just for money? or for any reason what-so-ever? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Suicide bombers! Suicide bombers? I thought these were Holy > mayrters, >> Masta? Regardless, tell me my moderate Muslim, you say Exterminate, >> Exterminate WHO? Exterminate HOW? Is there a conspiracy! against > those >> who believe in Islam; > There is a common beleive between your grand stratgiets (e.g. rand…) > that Islam is a threat because it does not preach materialism. > Islam instills in every Muslims that there are somethings more > important than money and even other humans. It is justice you > idiot. The question becomes > "what is just?" and not "how much?" or "how many"? > This contradicts deeply with the whole premise of western > materialistic > civilization that everything has a price and everything is negotiable. > So, in pure western terms, if I come to you and ask you to fuck your > 3 month old baby for $1 Mn and you say no, it is because I did not > offer enough money. There will always be a price that you agree on > and later try to justify your acceptance of such a crime.

Ooookaayyyy, hold your time fuse for just a sec. Grand Stratigest?? Ok, first off tell me about this. Second, I hate to ask it, but what do you define as Materialism? I mean, what do you think Materialism is? Third, Justice is MORE important. I am afraid that even with Justice you must use a qualifier such as more or less. How much or how little. Justice, I would LOVE to hear your definition of what JUSTICE is!!!! You have me so excited you don’t even know. I have studied Plato for over 10 years and I am like Socrates, I know that I know nothing, and if you Know what Justice is I would Love to have you teach me and explain to me what this is. All the More reason to call you Masta Monsur, my moderate Muslim buddy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A muslim who was broughtup according to Quran will always refuse > irrespective of the money. Does not mean that some Muslims won’t > but the majority will because of the teachings. In

Response:

>> as Islam rejects progress and has rejected progress since the 14th

century. You are trying to evaluate Islam based on your historial exprience with Christanity which is wrong and even stupid (unsurprising given what you are). Islam (at least Sunni Islam) does not propose a theocratic state that would control people’s thought and actions (unlike Christianity and the Church in the medieval ages in Europe) There is nothing in Islam that prevents people from being creative and think independtly. Muslim countries are backward today because of the dictators appointed/helped by your filthy racist countries. > When did Islam become a RACE???

from dictionary.com, racism is "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others." There are two parts to the definition, the second part applies to you. The others could be more than one race. So, what you are doing is racism. > What is taught to the people of Arab countries?

What is not taught to the Arabs is the dehumanization of every other race. What is not taught is to judge someone by the color of his eyes or skin you white ant. > What type of shows do you watch?

If you mean Jerry Springer, we are not as low. But we have shows that has Islamists and Secularists and Communists and Socialists and Nationalists debating issues. When did you last see an Islamist on CNN? Of course, never, because you are supposed to be the supereme race and do not need to listen to those filthy shit! > what do the Sattelites beam into the houses of Arab homes?

- Pictures of Palestinian children being killed and dead after throwning stones at your clients in Israel in an anti-occupation demonstration. Talking about freedom… – Pictures of Iraq musemums being looted while your soliders stood doing nothing. Talking about civilization… – Pictures of Palestine before 1948: the banks, the cities, the streets, the schools, Palestinain living in all of those. Everything that was stolen. Talking about rule of law… – Pictures of American movies that dehumanize Muslims and Arabs being angry animals. Talking about equality… > You mean Dimmis, or dhimmis? Which means people other than Muslim. > Yeah, we dhimmis be good masta, we be mind-in our place real well > masta.

Among what it means, that humans should not kill each other for money you little white ant (unlike your mercenary forces in Iraq who went to steal the oil and get killed for that). > Suicide bombers! Suicide bombers? I thought these were Holy mayrters, > Masta? Regardless, tell me my moderate Muslim, you say Exterminate, > Exterminate WHO? Exterminate HOW? Is there a conspiracy! against those > who believe in Islam;

There is a common beleive between your grand stratgiets (e.g. rand…) that Islam is a threat because it does not preach materialism. Islam instills in every Muslims that there are somethings more important than money and even other humans. It is justice you idiot. The question becomes "what is just?" and not "how much?" or "how many"? This contradicts deeply with the whole premise of western materialistic civilization that everything has a price and everything is negotiable. So, in pure western terms, if I come to you and ask you to fuck your 3 month old baby for $1 Mn and you say no, it is because I did not offer enough money. There will always be a price that you agree on and later try to justify your acceptance of such a crime. A muslim who was broughtup according to Quran will always refuse irrespective of the money. Does not mean that some Muslims won’t but the majority will because of the teachings. In your case the majority will accept the deal as a good one! Actually, there has been a case recently (I think in Canada-Vancouver or Australia-Sydney) about a writer who argued that if it based on consenus (i.e. paid right price), then having sex with minors should not be an offence, so you are actually coming close to what I am describing. > is there a plan against the Muslim man or the Arab man to erase them from life? > If so, then please enlighten me and > explain why whoever would do this would exterminate so slowly? Why not > fast and right away?

Because others in the world will not allow it. There are ~180 countries in the world and the majority won’t tolerate that because they might be next. Gone by are the days when the white shity race went around exploiting and genociding others. > My ancestors were still in Italy and Germany when the west was being > settled. Racisim??? Attacking WHO? Attacking HOW? Pleeze Masta Monsor, > tell me, WHO is being ATTACKED? HOW is this group of people being > ATTACKED?

Ok, let us start by this short list: – Palestine: the whole country, the cities, the villages, the land, the banks, the ports, the cienmas, the clubs, the musemum, even the history is being sold on ebay now adays. 25,000 killed, 750,000 refugees (4 Mn with their children). – Occupation of Egypt by British for 80 years: Suez Canal for free for 80 years, Cotton for free for 80 years (used to be called white Gold) – Occupation of Syria by French for 60 years: Cotton, agricltural products for free. – Occupation of Algeria by French for 150 years: whole country resources belonged to the French. 500,000 Algerian civilians killed in the Algerian liberation war. Infact, there are books coming out now in France that claims that the French used chemical weapons against Algerians in that war. – Occupation of Somalia by Italy for 50 years: FYI, Somalia was once one of the the biggest exporter of fruits and it was all controlled/robbed by Italians. And before they left, they chopped all the northern part and gave it to Ethipia. That is why in south Ethiopia, they speak the same local language as Somailis till this day. > I am not to knowledgable in many things, could you please > enlighten me as to how many democracies exist in the Middle East?

I will you little ant. It is against your economic interest to have democracy in the middle east. Let us imagine the following scenario: Saudia Arabia is turned to a democracy, educated Saudis reach power and they decided to pursue their own economic interest. The first thing they are going to do is to stop selling crude oil and put plans to encourage local investment, so they won’t export oil but oil-byproducts: plastic, gas, … The whole western economy will be devasted because it is based on a pyramidal assumption that natural resources is cheap and abundant. So, it is in your own interest to have these traitor/rulers ruling. You can apply the same thing to every other middle eastern country. Recall that when Iran had elections in the 1960s, your CIA planned and excuted a cue aginst the elected government because it was going to adopt a more national policy in oil production (this event is documented by western historians and you can search in amazon for books about it) > How many Middle Easteners go to the polls to elect who they want

to lead them? I have seen two elections in Arab countries and it was cooked later on by your client regimes/traitors. The result was 99.9999% People joke overthere that if the Prophet Mohamed (may peace be upon him) came from heavens, he won’t get 99.9999% but the US client/president did. More importantly, I know a member in one of the opposition parties and he told me that the reason such ridicule never show on western TV is because the American embassay in the country discourage western reporters from reporting that to avoid raising attention in your stupid population about what is really happening and that you support dictators. > Could you please tell me some of the political parties in other

arab countries? Racist ant, here is a short list: – Egypt: 11 parties (not allowed to work by your client regime overthere) – Tunisia: 7 parties (not allowed to work by your client regime overthere) – Algeria: 13 parties (not allowed to work by your client regime overthere) > If Mohammed could only see how many Muslims sacrifice > thier lives to Islam and if only Mohammed could see all the peoples of > the book that are sacrificed along with the suicide that sacrifices. > What matter the numbers of slaves that Mohammed had, or his divine > benevolence in releasing them, when so many millions of Muslims are so > willing to carry out the will of Allah in releasing innocents of

thier life! Yes, that is true. If you kill us, we are going to kill you. No apologies here. Why would your blood be more expensive than ours? If you just confined it to verbal abuse, that is ok, we would have responded with the same. If you acted politly, we would do the same. But, if you take your armies and invade our countries, murder our children, terrorize our population, steal our resources, install dictators to rule us for the sake of your interests. Then we have the right, infact, the obligation to the future generations to do the same to you. It is simple math. This is what our religion teach us and it is made to protect everyone. If someone attack us, we attack back. Not because we like it but to make sure you are not going to get away with your crime and get used to do that with other nations/races/religions. If people just lean/hint to peace (as it is described in the Quran), we … read more »

Response:

>> FYI Islam is not a ‘race’, so hatrid of Islam is not ‘racist’.

bs. I challenge you to find any translation of a book written by Muslims that does that. You are referring to works of orientalists (Europeans) who hated Islam because it challenges them in the core of their beliefs. There are more and more western historians who acknowledge that such bias existed and was actually rewarded by the Church in many European countries. In fact, it was one of the ways that writers, cartoonists, painters and poems proved their loyalities to the church by attacking Islam even if they didn’t know anything about it and even if they have never met a Muslim. A very interesting piece of work that I came across several years back was made by a historian in Syria about the superstitions about Muslims and how it was spread. He was claiming that the earliest mention of so called Islamic barbarism was in Europe using stories from One thousand Nights and Nights which is a huge novel (written in Bagahdad 1000 years ago) that had many stories of horror, comic and fantasy embedded within. Apparantly, the European Churches collected these oral stories from travelers to the middle east and spread them as facts. Of course, no one can prove that because the Vatican opens its archives to selected researchers and some documents are never disclosed. But, that historian was arguing that he has seen copies of messages exchanged between churches that proved what he is saying. > Any attempt to put Jesus, as described in the Bible, into the same > category as that lecherous, bloodthirsty murder, Mohammed, is simply > character assination.

It is my duty, as a Muslim, to protect Jesus (may peace be upon him) from people like you who deviate his message and say that people should worship him! instead of God (BTW, Allah is just the Arabic name of God ya idiots out there). > Furthermore, Christians do not base thier religion on the Old Testament, so > references to Jewish practices before the comming of Jesus have little > bearing on Christianity.

Interesting, so, you are acknowledging that Jews have a problem with their text. That’s new. > Additionally it’s more than a ‘religion’ as we understand religion in the > west.

You do not have religions in the west anymore, so you do not understand what Muslims are talking about. What you have is some modified form of social organizations. The Churches (and not Christianity, God forbids) has been defeated in the west because of its abuse of power in the medival ages. If you go to Church to dance and sing, then this is not religion, ok? You can call it Carnvalism better. > Islam includes a set of civil laws with prescribed punishments for everyone, > including non-Muslims. ie it is a belief system that by its nature, seeks to > impose its religious laws on non-Muslims.

Boring and ignorant. FYI, when Muslim laws were enforced (up till 300 years ago in most Muslim countries) Christians had their own courts. This existed in Egypt, Syria,Lebanon and Jews had their own courts in Morroco. These are the countries that had significant numbers of them. It was canceled by the Ottmans later on as they tried to introduce one law for all. This is a form of civil rule your countries did not reach to yet which is to allow each minority and/or religious group to rule itself within one country. > Christianity on the otherhand, while clearly outlining rules of conduct for > Christians, has no set of civil laws or prescribed punishments. Jesus did > not instruct his followers to punish others for thier ’sins’, rather, > Christians are to simply share the Gospel, so that any, who by free will, > may choose to accept it.

When the Churches ruled, they had a much stricter set of rules, than anything in Islam, (witches were burnt, …..) So, they both have complicated set of rules. > I have lived in the middle east and I have > lived for sometime in the west. In the middle east, I have seen real > Christians: humble, devout and polite. In the west, Christianity has > been mixed with Racism from day one.

I do not dare to say that Christanity is racist. I meant as clearly written, the "western version of Christianity" is racist. > Bukhari Volume 1, Book 3, Number 63: > Narrated Anas bin Malik: > While we were sitting with the Prophet in the mosque, a man came riding on > a camel. He made his camel kneel down in the mosque, tied its foreleg and > then said: "Who amongst you is Muhammad?" At that time the Prophet was > sitting amongst us (his companions) leaning on his arm. We replied, "This > white man reclining on his arm." The an then addressed him, "O Son of > ‘Abdul Muttalib." > So if Mohammed was ‘light skinned’, who’s to say Jesus was not?

Hahaha, you really hope he was. Not a black perhaps! It does not matter to me. It often matters to others.. In Islam, God does not look to our faces but to our hearts, so the whole skin issue is by passed. > Judiasm is not a ‘race’ either. It’s a religion.

You need to read more about Judiasm. FYI, up till this day Israel does not accept someone to be a Jew unless he/she has a Jewish mother and that mother had a Jewish mother and so on… It is by every definition a race and a religion and a very closed race indeed. > You think that all Jews have to have darker skin or what?

Middle eastern jews are generally mediterranean-like skin. Jews who are white come from tribes from some where between Ukraine and Poland. The date when they converted to Judaism is a matter of debate between historians. Some say that these are the descendents of the ones who fled Egypt. Others say they are not because there is no way their skins could have got lighter in 3000-4000 years and argue that these converted to Judaism by contact with Jewish merchants sometime in 12th century. FYI, for the longest time, white Jews were not considered real Jews by the middleeastern ones, all the way till the Muslim rule in Spain was ended which caused middle eastern Jews who moved to Spain to escape the Christian presecution and go to northern Europe in more liberal places like Holland. There they encountred western Jews and married from them but up till this day, there are some Jews who look with suspision to them (I’ve met an Iraqi Jew in the US who did) Uptill this day, there are two senior rabbias, one for eastern Jews one for western ones. > Looks like he was from Sweden and not a Jew from the middle east (compare him to Israeli > Prime Minister Barak: short- dark hair- brown eyes- belly … and not > to Sharon who is originally Polish from a tribe that converted to > Judaism much later….) why are you doing that? again because are > defined by racisim. > Thats just silly. I’ve seen picures depicting Jesus in all sorts of ways, > white, brown and even black. Noone knows exactly what He looked like. > Christianity is defined in the New Testament, not by ‘pictures of

Jesus’. This actually support my point. All the earliest pictures of Jesus were white and soon it became a problem because every other ethnic group wanted to model Jesus to look like them, so now there is a black Jesus and a chinses Jesus and a latin Jesus. But if you read early history of European art, there are tons of mentions of the attempts to portray him as white. If you visit Italian churches, they are full of the white tall blue/green eyed figure. This is not a coincidence. I do not care what was his color, your ancestors did very much. You don’t today because it is not politically correct, but that is just knew in the last 25 years. So, there is definitly an element of race there, you just can’t deny it. > I think it’s pretty clear that specifically targeting defensless men, women > and children in school busses, churches, temples, disco’s etc is doing much > to help your cause, (whatever that cause may be). All it does is reflect > the true nature if Islam. How can anyone expect people who base thier > religion on the teachings of a blood thirsty murderer to act any different? > The strictest adherents to the religion want to act just like their > founder.

Yes, that is true. If you kill us, we are going to kill you. No apologies here. Why would your blood be more expensive than ours? If you just confined it to verbal abuse, that is ok, we would have responded with the same. If you acted politly, we would have done the same. But, if you take your armies and invade our countries, murder our children, terrorize our population, steal our resources, installs dictators to rule us for the sake of your interests. then we have the right, infact, the obligation to the future generations to do the same to you. It is simple math. This is what our religion teach us and it is made to protect us. If someone attack us, we attack back. Not because we like it but to make sure you are not going to get away with your crime and get used to do that with other nations/races/religions else corruption and anrachy will dominate in the world. If people just lean/hint to peace (as it is described in the Quran), we cannot fight them even if it is against our own economic interest. If one of us does injustice to someone, we have to stand against him/her/them because Justice as a prinicple is more important than him/her/them. (I do not think you understand what I am talking about…) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Interesting to note here that Saddam had French Mirage fighter jets, French > nuclear technology, Chinese and

Response:

> Precisely to the point. If you provide context to each one of those > statements I took from the bible and we (as non-Christians) are > supposed to believe your interpretation, (despite of the fact that > there are evidence against and also for your interpretation as I can > give you tens of references that does both) then why don’t you accept > the same from Muslims?? Because you are a racist

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